What If Star Wars?

Yeah because if Anakin had been a well adjusted, smart, good-looking even tempered guy it would make perfect sense to have him turn to the darkside.

At it's base Star Wars is about heroes and villians.

If Anakin had been well adjusted good little boy, I wouldn't have bought the fall at all. As weak as it was.
So, you think good people can't turn bad when growing up and facing the horrors of the world and being trained in an order with magical powers, but tells you to stay calm and not get frustrated and annoyed and angry at the selfish nature of politicians and the people occupying that world. Even even-tempered people can decide to support a dictator and become brutal to maintain peace and order.

Do you think Boromir wasn't a well adjusted, smart, good looking, even tempered guy? He still fell - in his desire to save his people he was seduced by the promise of the one ring and tried to steal it from Frodo

So I don't buy your reasoning that only a whiny, bratty mass-murdering kid would turn into Vader. Totally goes against what Obi-Wan told Luke about Anakin - and don't give me that old tale about: oh... they were two people in Star Wars... it wasn't until ESB that they were fused into one. Obi-Wan remember Anakin with fondness and regret. I certainly don't feel there's any such emotions worthy of the way Anakin was portrayed in the PT.

But... this is about the designs of the world and vehicles of the PT and the OT and their differences, so why begin arguing about anything else?
 
It just needs lots of kit bashed parts stuck all over it and a few worn out stripes, then it would fit in fine with the OT look. Most of those OT ships started out simple looking like that, then they were "evolved" a few times. The Buck Rogers starfighter is the end development perhaps?


That's exactly my point.

It does need a healthy dose of kit bashing and some weathering (aka, creativity and realism) and it might have a chance of fitting in with the OT, it sure wouldn't be in my top 10, but it might fit.

But with the PT, it could be left as is, you could toss it in anywhere and you would never notice.
 
I don't think that the PT movies could be described and dissected any better than what RedLetterMedia has already done. As for the visuals, I don't go into these movies thinking to myself, "Whatever, those ships can totally not fly for serious!!!". In my opinion, the ships and costuming were actually fairly well done. I could see the progression that they made from the PT Star Destroyer to the OT and the Clone Trooper armor to the Stormtrooper armor. To me it seemed pretty logical/believable.

I actually think that the PT is pretty boring as far is the storyline goes however. It's like George couldn't decide if he was writing for kids or for grown ups. The visuals were awesome, the story sucked. Although I think that they could of held back in some areas and not pack so much junk on the screen.
 
The designs in the PT needed to look a bit different from what we were used to.....obvious. Most of them still exude a classic Star Wars flavour.
It's juvenile to expect everything to echo the OT. The PT had a whole new, previously unseen enemy force...the droid army. This necessitates a whole new series of designs that do not conform to what has been experienced before.

Stomping your feet and crying that they aren't as good as OT star Wars designs is, well, mental.

I think the creativity and gargantuan levels of design within the Star Wars Saga is truly staggering. I'd feel petty criticising designs that i can't better.

....and showing a Howlrunner makes no sense....it was designed for the Dark Empire comic, not a movie. If comics had to conform to real life physics, Superman wouldn't fly....

Rich
 
What makes the OT so much better than the PT for me (actually just about all sci-fi/fantasy movies these days) is that most of it is real! The props & models ARE real! The Falcon, 5ft of tangible spaceship! Tauntaun, real. AT-AT, real. Jabba. Yoda, real. Real models being blown to kingdom come for the trench run! That's worth watching. It makes for a special quality. When I watch the prequels I find myself often just not getting into/caring like I do when something is destroyed or blown up in the OT.

Back when real movies were made all the time, if you saw 500 horses charging for a cavalry attack it was truly exciting. Nowadays if a movie has 500 horses charging you can bet most are digital. Where's the awe, the grandeur, the magic then??? Look, I have ten thousand whatever in my movie...Who cares! CGI should compliment and not be the main character in the movie!

The PT had some great CGI in it but it was overused. I have to tell myself to believe...something that I never have had to do with the OT.

There is just no comparison to the real thing...

So yes, I would like the PT more if like the OT there were more models than cgi. However, it would still have to be more advanced looking and feeling than the OT...there has to be decline to show the nature of dictatorship after all.

And no, this is not me just trying to bash the PT...this is a cgi bashing. I watch the PT along with the OT regularly...but not with the same enthusiasm.
 
So yes, I would like the PT more if like the OT there were more models than cgi. However, it would still have to be more advanced looking and feeling than the OT...there has to be decline to show the nature of dictatorship after all.
Just because you have a dictatorship, doesn't mean there is a decline. The Clone Wars ended with the forming of the Empire, with Palpatine as the Emperor. There was peace, but for a small disgruntled group of dissents. There would really be no reason for the Galaxy not to prosper and expand - at the expense of alien species and their rights, but to assume that the Empire didn't take the best tech and made it theirs and improved it is beyond ridiculous. There's barely anything but laser weapons in the OT, but there are a myriad of strange and exotic and intelligent weapons being used in the PT. The lack of all that tech within the Empire in the OT is just... stupid.
 
. (GL had a LOT of people influencing ANH not just ESB and ROTJ)

Not just influencing but doing at Lucas' request the stuff that he knew he was crap at. Like dialogue. He knew the dialogue in his final script for SW was dull, but back then he had the sense and humility to hire someone else to go over it and give it the zest he wanted. The Huycks rose admirably to the occasion and gave him the colour and humour he was unable to provide himself. He should've hired the Huycks or Lawrence Kasdan or someone to sort out his prequel scripts.
 
I'm interested in what you said about Joe, and his input into the O.T. look.

Well, put it this way, Jango isn't Boba's father, Joe is.

I'm by no means an expert on Joe Johnston's work, I've just always really appreciated his style and vision and if I attempted to detail the level of his contribution to the OT, it would fail miserably, it wouldn't give him the justice and respect, I feel, he deserves.

I have no idea why Ralph McQuarrie gets all the credit, don't get me wrong, McQuarrie is insanely talented, but Joe had just as much influence and input in the development and look of the OT Universe as McQuarrie did. The majority of the time, they were bouncing ideas off each other, inspiring and pushing one another, working back and forth on an idea until they came up with something they were both satisfied with.

Like Liz Moore, Joe is another in the long line of unsung creative talents that have unfortunately faded into the background.



Do you think that Howlrunner design ended up as the snowspeeder?
It's the other way around.


The Howlrunner was just a generic ship from the EU/ Dark Empire, that I found while looking through The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels. I only posted it to illustrate my point about the difference between the creative, inspirational and ground-breaking look of the OT and the bland and generic look of the PT.

The mediocre Howlrunner could have been used anywhere in the PT, as back-ground fodder or, as a "Hero" fighter, it wouldn't have made a difference.

I also don't buy into the argument that designs such as Queen Amidala's, mirrored chrome, J-type 327 Nubian royal starship shows the opulence of the Nubian, Old Republic, it's not a clever story-telling emblem, it's just unimaginative and lazy.



Here, just found this link to some early OT designs.
I want to know what you think of the Cantwell designs.
http://www.therpf.com/f10/colin-cantwell-prototype-tie-research-thread-87344/
Well, of course it is a bit rough and silly looking, you've got to start somewhere though, but thanks to the dedicated and talented artists of the OT, it became an iconic design of a generation.



On the other hand, if it was left as is, maybe change the the color scheme, it would have been right at home with this PT nonsense.

starwars2_3732.jpg


4619546783_69ddae1fbc_o.jpg
 
I don't mind the Cantwell models. I see them as a rough mockup.
No, neither do I, I feel the same way, I was just trying to express the difference between the developed and and intentional designs of the OT vs. the mundane and negligible look of the PT.


So let's talk process. How did the design and development process in Star Wars differ from that of TPM?
To be honest, I was never motivated to actually look into those aspects of the PT, so I cant really comment on that.

All I know is that I'm going to learn a lot more about my interests, if I let Sean expound how and why he's come to his POV.
I'll do what I can, I've never sat down and dissected what it is about the look of OT, it's more of an intuitive thing.
Give me a second and see if I can actually put into words what it is that appeals to me and why the OT works and where the PT doesn't.

From my POV, of course.
 
Ok, I’ll give this try.


Even though this is in a distant Galaxy, in a different time, the characters, for the most part, are predominately human, or humanoid, they are dependent on the same things we are, atmosphere, gravity, things like that, so already, there's an inherent, intuitive sense of fundamental rules that have to be followed to be convincing and believable.


There has to be some sense of familiarity with our reality so we can subconsciously identify with it.
Without a grounding base that follows the fundamental laws of nature, the act of suspending disbelief cant be accomplished as successfully without an anchor in our own reality. There has to be rules so that they can be broken, without them, there's no need to suspend disbelief, because there's no underlying believability in the first place.


Form follows function, the OT followed this criteria to perfection, while the PT sacrifices function, form for the sake of form, it became lost in it's own self-indulgence. Physics and reality became frivolous, the artistic took precedence over the realistic.


There's several factors that have to work individually and in unison for the over-all look and design to be successful and believable, such as shape, proportion, contrast, functionality, the subtle and the dominant, detail, symmetry, asymmetry, variation and theme, etc.


So this post doesn’t become too long-winded, I'll show one example and see where it goes from there.


This first one mainly deals with shape, proportion, contrast, functionality variation and theme.




74-Z_Military_Speeder_BikeSIZED.jpg




The Biker Scout and his Speeder Bike.
Even though we've never seen a Speeder Bike before, we can take a pretty accurate guess as to what it is, just based on its shape alone.


The angles and lines, the balance, physics, symmetry, the functionality, the position where the rider sits, the thin, extended length up-front, that adds balance and compensates for the bulk ,weight and mass in the back without adding considerable weight itself, the fins upfront that add stability, so it remains agile at fast speeds, like a Dragster without wheels.
The weathered, assembly line, utilitarian look that the OT is famous for, that adds the imperative grounding anchor and believability, all of these aspects successfully employed in this iconic design. All aspects are working in and of themselves and in accord with one another.


We don't question how the Speeder Bike works, because it just looks like it should work, so instead of our sense of disbelief lagging behind, off we go, along for the ride at a 110 mph through the forest of Endor, not giving the believability and functionality of the machine a second thought.


Now if we exam the “speeder bikes” that Dooku and Maul rode and to makes things a lot faster and easier, the PT “speeder bikes” are completely void of every single positive and successful thing that I just listed and described about the OT Speeder Bike, absolutely everything.


IMO, the main flaws with the PT bikes are proportion, shape and functionality.


Maul looks like he's riding some weird marital aid, or an abstract, Art Nouveau recliner with handle bars, that would look awesome sitting in the corner of his studio loft, right next to his IKEA bookshelf.




FC-20_speeder_bike.jpg






Dooku's proportions are so far off, the evil and menace of his character gives way to the utterly ridiculous. He looks like one of those funny old Shriners, zooming around like silly clowns in their tiny little cars and motorcycles.
All Dooku is missing is a fez and you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.




starwars2_3889.jpg
 
Last edited:
If they were able to achieve those looks(in cg) back in 1977, the world would have been in aw. Star Wars was a feat in it's time and changed the way we make movies, it set a higher standard. I do not understand why some people hate it so much, then again, us humans do not understand as much as we would like to. Bottom line, The Star Wars saga is a great family/friend film that has brought people from around the world to come together. Our world in our galaxy, to view another galaxy far far away. As everyone knows, there are quite a few people on our planet. With so many people, there are bound to be arguments.
 
Back
Top