Titanic vs. A Night To Remember

A Night to Remember was written (book the movie was based on) based on intervenes from over 50 survivors and the movie advised by several of them.
There are some Titanic documentaries from about 20 years ago that go into it, I believe they are in a box set sold at Target.

For the record I have never wasted my time on Cameron's film.

I've seen both films and also noticed some shots Cameron completely lifted. The one in my head is all the pricey china dishes toppling and smashing as the ship lists. Nearly identical in both films.

From what I've read, a first person account has Andrews last seen in one of the first-class lounges looking at a painting, and the Captain returning to the wheelhouse. I can't speak to the other stuff.

On a side note, my 5 year old son is fascinated with Titanic...and has been since he was 3. It's really weird. We DVR'd the Cameron special where he and experts re-examine the wreck and the sinking...and he watches it at least every couple of days. He loves the movie too...except the kissing scenes.

A Night to Remember is far better in my opinion, and there is no question in my mind that Cameron lifted some scenes directly from it.

Probe Droid said:

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I've seen both films and also noticed some shots Cameron completely lifted. The one in my head is all the pricey china dishes toppling and smashing as the ship lists. Nearly identical in both films.

Yup - great example...

Bootlegger137 said:

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From what I've read, a first person account has Andrews last seen in one of the first-class lounges looking at a painting, and the Captain returning to the wheelhouse. I can't speak to the other stuff.

Another scene where the "inspiration" for Cameron may have been either A Night To Remember or actual history is the band leader's comment, "Well that's it then. We've done our duty gents, time to go..." then they all continue to play as the band leader starts into Nearer My God To Thee.

The dialogue between the two scenes are simply parapharsed versions of each other. However, is it possible that history records it that way? Dunno...

HOWEVER...

Recapitulating to my comment that JC used A Night To Remember as a template, from that piont on, both films launch into a montage of scenes of chaos while the hymn solemnly plays in the background.

Again, A Night To Remember is seemingly very much the template from Cameron's film.

Bootlegger137 said:

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From what I've read, a first person account has Andrews last seen in one of the first-class lounges looking at a painting, and the Captain returning to the wheelhouse. I can't speak to the other stuff.

Also, on the Andrews scene, stands to reason if his last reported location was in the lounge.

But interestingly, in Titanic Jack & Rose pass by, and he tells them to stay on the ship as long as possible before entering the water.

In A Night To Remember, there is a young couple already seated in the lounge, and Andrews advises them not to wait until the last minute to jump ship, and to wear white to be seen better (among other tidbits of advice).

Again, a template for JC.

You have chosen...wisely.

Yeah, James Cameron was actually a big fan of "A Night to Remember" and it shows.

One of my favorite examples of shot-for-shot was when the ship hit the iceburgand the ice comes tumbling down onto the forecastle.

There are even some historically in-accurate lifts from "A Night to Remember" - namely the band playing "Nearer My God to Thee..." as the ship went down. The debat rages on about the final song, however, even if it WAS "Nearer My God to Thee.." it was the wrong version of the song. Cameron did it, of course, because it was more dramatic and recognizable by the audience.

I remember Cameron saying he admired Walter Lord and the work he did for Titanic history.

As to which is better, I think they both have their merits. Cameron's attention to historical detail was impeccable, though he's famous for abandoning history for a better story. I think they both reflect the times in which they were made. Obviously I think A Night to Remeber's depiction of Lightoller was MUCH more accurate (having been a consultant to the movie). Cameron's crew seemed to be bumbling, which I didn't care for - given the time period, I believe A Night to Remember is much closer to the crew's behavior.

Of course... After years of seeing Titanic in Black and White and only in color via paintings, Cameron's movie made the Titanic real. Seeing the ship in color for the first time still sends shivers down my spine.

Some more...

Andrews, "Its a mathematical certainty..."

The dance in steerage

Crow's nest shots/dialogue

Ice calving onto forecastle

3rd Class passengers attempting to breach gate, "That's Company Property!"

PHArchivist said:

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Some more...

Andrews, "Its a mathematical certainty..."

The dance in steerage

Crow's nest shots/dialogue

Ice calving onto forecastle

3rd Class passengers attempting to breach gate, "That's Company Property!"

All these are from the book and actual accounts of what happened, no?

It's a pity Cameron didn't emulate the proficient TONE of 'A Night to Remember'. The result was that his Titanic was holed below the waterline well before it hit any iceberg. And after it hit, the tone went absolutely all to hell. Cameron couldn't decide if he wanted to show the sinking of the Titanic or some stupid silent-era-esque melodrama with gun-toting villain chasing hero around. So he showed both, destroying the film.

I go with A Night To Remember too. I couldn't get into the love story of Cameron's movie. My friend is nuts about the Titanic and has a filing cabinet full of stuff about it but she also loves the Cameron movie but i think more for the chick flick value than anything.

Too Much Garlic said:

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All these are from the book and actual accounts of what happened, no?

They very well could be...

As mentioned earlier, I readily concede that Cameron's inspiration blurs between the film, the book, and other recorded accounts of history.

Though, while dialogue and verbiage may be traced to the literary work or actual history, camera angles and specific shots that "match" are more clearly attributable to the earlier film.

My current PC oly has a standard DVD player. I have A Night To Remember on Blu-Ray so I can't do screen caps. Otherwise it'd be fun and fascinating to do a scene-by-scene match-up...!

I can "forgive" the love story because it was necessary for the kind of money the studio was fronting for this movie. If it had "just" been a Titanic movie, it wouldn't have done NEARLY as well (and they wouldn't have gotten funding either).

The love story wasn't just a way to get women into the theater, it was a way to magnify the emotional impact of the story for the audience. Seeing historical characters die... well, it's sad but you're not really 'involved'. By adding a couple of fictional characters whom the audience can connect to, suddenly the impact of what's happening is multiplied. It also bring back the element of mystery to the plot. Everybody knows the ship sinks - no surprise there. Now we have the question of "Which story characters will live and which will die? What happens to them along the way?"

A Night to Remember takes a slightly different path: instead of following passengers, they follow one of the crew (Lightoller). Emotionally, it didn't bind me to the story as much as Cameron's story did.

I don't think there's any doubt that A Night to Remember is the better film, but for Titanic nuts Cameron's Titanic really brought the ship to life. Not even A Night to Remember was as detailed as Cameron was.

PHArchivist said:

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Though, while dialogue and verbiage may be traced to the literary work or actual history, camera angles and specific shots that "match" are more clearly attributable to the earlier film.

Yes, it's all about context.

In Cameron's film, when Ismay is trying to convince Smith to light the last boilers, you can see a woman, in the background, occasionally glancing toward Smith and Ismay. This isn't just a random woman and her glances aren't random - this woman is the survivor that reported the meeting between Smith and Ismay. THAT'S how detailed Cameron was.

Even if you can trace a line back to Historical or literary works, it's still all about how they portrayed the line. Somebody may have uttered a phrase, but how the director and actor choose to deliver the line adds a lot to it (was the character anxious? Did they scream it or whisper it? Were they standing or sitting? What was the context of the line? Was it a last-minute thought or something they set out deliberately to say?).

TheDoctor said:

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Even if you can trace a line back to Historical or literary works, it's still all about how they portrayed the line. Somebody may have uttered a phrase, but how the director and actor choose to deliver the line adds a lot to it (was the character anxious? Did they scream it or whisper it? Were they standing or sitting? What was the context of the line? Was it a last-minute thought or something they set out deliberately to say?).

Exellent points. And some lines in partiular are expressed in near identical fasion in both films The "That's White Star company property!" comes to mind.

Finding a historic angle to center the story around could potentially have worked just as well, but would have limited you to one section of the ship and wouldn't have been able to take you through all the layers, unless having various main characters to follow.

I almost entirely watch Cameron's Titanic for the historic parts and skip over the love story and hate Jack's narration while the ship's going down. Come on... who keeps a level head like that?

Too Much Garlic said:

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Finding a historic angle to center the story around could potentially have worked just as well, but would have limited you to one section of the ship and wouldn't have been able to take you through all the layers, unless having various main characters to follow.

I almost entirely watch Cameron's Titanic for the historic parts and skip over the love story and hate Jack's narration while the ship's going down. Come on... who keeps a level head like that?

That's one thing that always struck me as rather funny about Titanic. It's like Jack had prior experience of being on a sinking ship.

The best review of the Cameron version, in my opinion.

Steve Harvey "Titanic" - YouTube

PHArchivist said:

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On the A Night To Remember Blu-Ray is a 24-minute interview (from 1993) with survivor Eva Hart (she died three years later in '96).

Her story is nearly as compelling - or perhaps more so - than the Jack & Rose story. Through the horror and chaos, she also experienced the loss of her father, and the terror of being separated (as a child) from her mother once in the boats, not to be reunited until hours after being picked up by the Carpathia (which might have worked as the final resolution or "happy ending" in a film centered on her).

As a father of a young girl, the loss of the father, combined with all else, would quite effectively connect me emotionally to the story.

From a STORY perspective, I agree with you 100% - it would have been MUCH better to tell the story from the POV of an actual passenger and would have increased MY enjoyment of the film by at least 20 fold. From a "Let's get as many people into the seats and then come back" perspective, I'm still not convinced it would have done as well - it would have done well, probably netted them a nice profit, but it wouldn't have been a record-breaking money-maker.

For what it's worth, I think "A Night to Remember" proves your point very well. Much of it follows Lightoller and we care about him, what happens to him, etc. Interestingly, "A Night to Remember" is the only Titanic movie (that I can think of anyway) that WASN'T based around a fictional character. Most Titanic movies (including the 1953 "Titanic") are based around fictional characters involved in some kind of romantic plot.

Some interesting "A Night to Remember" facts (or legends):
- Sean Connery played a steerage passenger.
- The actor who played Fredrick Fleet (the lookout) in ANtR played Colonel Archibald Gracie in Cameron's Titanic.
- The guy who played Q in the bond films plays a Titanic crew member.
- The film contains clips from an earlier Nazi propaganda movie

Another funny thing...

Apparently the scene where Rose frees Jack from Titanic jail with an ax as the water is flooding the ship isn't original. The Nazi Titanic film had a similar scene. Weird.

TheDoctor said:

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Most Titanic movies (including the 1953 "Titanic") are based around fictional characters involved in some kind of romantic plot.

Not to mention an old 90's Danielle Steele romance novel!

Romance sells. An impossible doomed romance sells even more.