Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Is this a joke? :confused

Nope. Not at all. I don't think there's a way to make it work.

they might stop short of retconning it out of existence but the new movies will not be based on it.
there will be no thrawn.
there will be no mara jade.
no emperor clones.

And probably no Marvel series, or the "Classic Star Wars" from Archie Goodwin and Al Williamson, or any number of Dark Horse comics.

The EU began long before Thrawn and Mara Jade. While I agree that certain chunks of the EU were garbage (like the Emperor's clones and the Yuuzhan Vong), I'd point out that some of the coolest story's and characters also came from it.

That's true, but I don't think that there's a way to make all that stuff work, really. Certainly the Thrawn-to-the-present stuff won't work. And the real issue is that, at least with respect to the novels and anything built on those novels, once you knock out a lynchpin like Mara Jade...the whole thing starts crumbling apart. So much of the EU was built on references to itself. If there's no Mara, then how does the Thrawn thing get solved, assuming it even happened? If it didn't happen, how do you have any of the legions of books that followed and built upon where the characters were after those events?

I just don't think you can do it and maintain any semblance of continuity. Which is why I think they'll simply do a "alternate universe" hand-waive and that's that. It's too much of a pain in the ass to try to preserve the EU in a piecemeal fashion, so they'll just scrap it altogether.

And if you think they're going to do ANYTHING to screw with the EU, which is what basically drove the Star Wars universe from 1983 to 1999.....you're delusional.

I believe time will prove that it is you who labors under the delusion that corporate powers that be owe anything to long-time fans. I mean, by all means, cling to whatever forlorn hope you like, but do you really think they'll wade into the minefield of trying to preserve large swaths of material from the EU just to satisfy disgruntled fans who'll still pay for a ticket and buy all the new stuff anyway? They know they've got the junkies hooked. They know this. You know it. We ALL know it. If the prequels didn't kill this franchise, it's unkillable. Nothing will take it down, not even fans being irritated that the EU was now treated as non-official canon. I'm sure they'll keep selling the books and stuff because, hey, why not, but they'll rebrand them as another universe or "what ifs" or whathaveyou. Or they just won't say anything about it, and leave it to fans to figure out how all the pieces fit (hint: they won't).

The EU has almost certainly made more money for the Star Wars brand than all 6 movies combined - and that's not to mention that it keeps the brand hot and relevant during all the dry periods between theatrical releases.

I could go on and on but it's just my opinion so I'll shut up. lol

First and foremost, the Star Wars brand is the movies. And the movies ALWAYS take precedence over the EU. Whether it's a casual kind of retcon or a major one, retcons will happen. We went from spaarti cloning cylinders to the Kamino clones, and nobody blinked. In the end, I think that's how this will go, even if they basically eliminate the entire post-Thrawn EU from canon. Which, let's be clear, they can do as easily as saying "Mara Jade doesn't exist." Seriously. Try to make the EU work without her influence being felt. It doesn't end up making sense.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

And if you think they're going to do ANYTHING to screw with the EU, which is what basically drove the Star Wars universe from 1983 to 1999.....you're delusional.

I remember when Boba Fett was Journeyman Protector Jaster Mereel. Then Episode II came out and he wasn't.

M
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Don't get me wrong, I will see these movies come hell or high water. And by all means, retcon the **** out of the events of the post-ROTJ novels. I just think it would be a shame to throw so many great characters out the window.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

And if you think they're going to do ANYTHING to screw with the EU, which is what basically drove the Star Wars universe from 1983 to 1999.....you're delusional. The EU has almost certainly made more money for the Star Wars brand than all 6 movies combined - and that's not to mention that it keeps the brand hot and relevant during all the dry periods between theatrical releases.

I could go on and on but it's just my opinion so I'll shut up. lol

They are going to not only largely ignore the EU they will direct all their publishing efforts going forward to be supportive of all the new film content which will further dismantle the current EU cannon. Best to begin to come to terms with that. And it's categorically untrue that the EU has generated more revenue then the films and associated film based merchandising. The EU contributes a small percentage if LucasFilm revenue.
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

They are going to not only large ignore the EU threy will direct all their publishing efforts going forward to be supportive of all the new film content which will further dismantle the current EU cannon. Best to begin to cone to terms with that. And it's categorically untrue that the EU has generated more revenue then the films and associated film based merchandising. The EU contributes a small percentage if LucasFilm revenue.

Exactly.

The only way to avoid retconning the EU altogether is to either jump WAY forward in time, or WAY backward in time. But once you decide "We're gonna include the big three," you either have to go whole-hog on the EU and include it, or ignore it altogether. Going the piecemeal approach just starts to unravel it to the point where there's really no way to make it make sense.

You know, with just a little red matter and a time traveling vortex, all these EU problems could be solved [url]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn173/Cailleavinca/smillies/stir_pot.gif[/URL]

>SMACK<

Quiet, you!

;)
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Don't get me wrong, I will see these movies come hell or high water. And by all means, retcon the **** out of the events of the post-ROTJ novels. I just think it would be a shame to throw so many great characters out the window.

Solo nailed it though. You take a good character, but then for the sake of casting or the story of the movie the character HAS to be changed and then people start throwing hissy fits.

The EU, regardless of what you think of it, is a niche market. Even for SW fans. There are 7,218 different Luke Skywalker figures out there. I think one is from an EU story. Maybe 2. Go through the racks today. There's nothing EU in it I don't believe. It's all from the movies. The business is the movies, period, end of story.

If the EU was a major money making endeavor, then the EU would get incorporated into the flow, but it's not going to happen. There's not reason to do so. George and LFL stated as much when they allowed books to be written in the early 90's.

Essentially a publisher went up to them and said we want to have writers write books post ROTJ and we'll pay you licensing and royalties to do so. LFL said, uh, ok sure. We'll take money. That's more or less it. They kept right of refusal over stuff (can't do this or that kind of things) but that was it. The key is it wasn't their baby. It's all the product of others. Might not make a difference to you, but it is likely a huge deal to the guy writing the story/outline. Not sure how far out the EU books have gotten either, but there's a huge backstory there that's IMPOSSIBLE to get across to the 90% (or more) movie viewers who've not read any of them.

For every 'Cool, they named that guy Kyle Katarn', there'll be 30+ 'where's the beard?' 'he wasn't bald(ing)', 'his saber is yellow?' 'he'd never do that' etc from the 10%.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

For every 'Cool, they named that guy Kyle Katarn', there'll be 30+ 'where's the beard?' 'he wasn't bald(ing)', 'his saber is yellow?' 'he'd never do that' etc from the 10%.

More importantly, for the vast bulk of the viewing audience, there won't be any reaction at all. Kyle Katarn will just be some random blonde dude who worked as a quartermaster for the Rebels during the war and managed to rise to a position of "Senator with one line in the film." Assuming that one line even warrants us learning the dude's backstory.

Including such a character might be a vague "wink" to the roughly 10% of the audience who'll get the reference, and will **** off a decent portion of that 10% when he doesn't happen to hew to the "official" description.


More importantly, though, the writers of these films do not want to be constrained except by established tenets and plot points from the previous films. As far as EU goes, the only stuff I'd expect them to MAYBE respect is the recent Clone Wars stuff, and even then it'd only be to maybe include a scene with some character like Ashoka or whatever Anakin's padawan is named. Or they might just ignore it entirely because, really, why bother? You don't have to confirm or deny it happened -- you can just ignore it and sidestep the issue altogether.


The problem with the bulk of the EU novels, comics, etc. that take place post-ROTJ, though, is that by involving the Big Three, you're almost certain to retcon SOMETHING. So, why not just hand-waive and say "All that stuff is an alternate universe" or simply contradict it and move on. You don't have to pull the license, but you also don't have to lift a finger to try and make all the stuff work -- and there WILL be retcons of at least some of it.


I'll admit that there may be a very slim possibility that perhaps some of the post-ROTJ, Thrawn-and-on stuff will survive, but once you start allowing stuff, you end up creating issues. Like, do they acknowledge everyhing up to XYZ book? Do they allow some stuff from one book but not from another? I think the ultimate answer is they say "Who cares?" and write whatever story they want, leaving it to fans and whoever holds the novel license to try to sort out the "canon." They're not interested in the Holy Church of Star Wars and ensuring that canon, apocrypha, and heresy are neatly sorted. They're in the movie-making (and money-making) business.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well I'll give you some points, I still doubt they will totally steamroll the EU. They can easily work around it. Whatever size Lucasfilm's publishing arm is, it will be absolutely zero if they did that. Who would ever buy a SW novel if nothing was consistent? They will still sell games, but the book merchandising won't make a dime.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think you guys are missing the biggest Esp VII killer... This is a Disney production.. They will try to cast big name no talent Actors so they can draw the younger audience. My love of SW will die a little if I see.. The Rock/ Channing Tatum / Paul Walker / Will Smith / Jayden Smith / Justin Beaver/ actors from the Disney channel.... Again this is Mouse house it's all about the green backs.. They don't care as much about die Hards as they do about selling to the rest of the demographic that will go see the new movie. They know they got us hooked already as soon as they announced SW Esp VII. Now they will draw in the 16 year olds on a date with nothing else to do but go see a movie... Lucas Films did the same thing to a lesser degree with the PT with Jar Jar / Sam Jackson / Natalie Portman (She nailed it) Ewan McGregor . There is no way you can tell me Sam Jackson should have been in PT no way.. But they wanted to reach a bigger audience. It honesty worries me what Mouse House is going to do to this beloved Franchise of mine.. :'(
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

More importantly, for the vast bulk of the viewing audience, there won't be any reaction at all. Kyle Katarn will just be some random blonde dude who worked as a quartermaster for the Rebels during the war and managed to rise to a position of "Senator with one line in the film." Assuming that one line even warrants us learning the dude's backstory.

Including such a character might be a vague "wink" to the roughly 10% of the audience who'll get the reference, and will **** off a decent portion of that 10% when he doesn't happen to hew to the "official" description.

That's what I'm thinking, kind of like the subtle Vos reference in ROTS
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think the best we can hope for is that they will ignore the EU and hope for a happy coexistence, on the other end they could trample it. There are still post FOTJ books on the schedule though... I dunno. Maybe some kind of storyline gibberish about multiple realities? Let's face it though, at this point the EU is so far up it's own ass that it would have to be nailed to the T to work with new films and I just can't see it happening.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I remember when Boba Fett was Journeyman Protector Jaster Mereel. Then Episode II came out and he wasn't.

M

Well he was rumored to have been Jaster Mereel! lol! I liked how murky his past used to be. But yeah that was one aspect of the EU that I would've been fine with them going with, as opposed to what George actually gave us. Yeesh. At this point, I honestly wish the Boba Fett in the OT was just some guy that had killed Boba the Clone and assumed his name. At least some of the mystery would be back and no New Zealand accent!
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well I'll give you some points, I still doubt they will totally steamroll the EU. They can easily work around it. Whatever size Lucasfilm's publishing arm is, it will be absolutely zero if they did that. Who would ever buy a SW novel if nothing was consistent? They will still sell games, but the book merchandising won't make a dime.

I think the big problem here is that the publishing arm was created and ran for years when the plan was there would be no new movies, then after a few years, they did prequels and said they're would never be sequels.

The only way to not ignore the EU, essentially, would be to jump about 100 years down the line and start with Luke's great grandkids...

Can you imagine how pissed the general public would be if the opening scrawl of 7 was going along and said something like "....and Han Solo without chewbacca who died 10 years ago......". So yeah, its going to get stepped on. How much? who knows.

People WERE warned before Zahn wrote his first book that on the offchance there ever were new movies, that they weren't beholden to these books in any way, shape, or form. You knew it going in. Can't complain when they do what they said they'd do from day one.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think they could easily fit these movies in before the Zahn stuff. I would have no problem if they ignored the Vong crap and Chewie dying. Maybe Luke's new Jedi Order are polygamists so he can have Mara and some other chick too? I don't know.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think they could easily fit these movies in before the Zahn stuff. I would have no problem if they ignored the Vong crap and Chewie dying. Maybe Luke's new Jedi Order are polygamists so he can have Mara and some other chick too? I don't know.

Admittedly, I never read the "Vong crap" books, but considering what I know about those events, I wouldn't mind if they got ditched. I always found the concept of a completely "alien", biotechnological race very un-starwarsy. Kind of like a mix between ST's Borg and Giger's Alien... :-/
The only EU books I enjoyed were the Thrawn Trilogy (but even that one had some cringeworthy stuff), the Outbound Flight/Survivor's Quest books and, recently, the one about Darth Plagueis as well as a book about Maul set about around the events that led up to Ep I.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 4
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

People WERE warned before Zahn wrote his first book that on the offchance there ever were new movies, that they weren't beholden to these books in any way, shape, or form. You knew it going in. Can't complain when they do what they said they'd do from day one.

The Zahn book came out before i could even read, so that doesn't apply to me :p

I would have no problem if they ignored the Vong crap and Chewie dying.

I'm cool with that.
 
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