Star Trek question - why did Troi not have a SF uniform?

CB2001 said:

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Originally, I always took it that Troi wasn't really a full-on Starfleet officer, as she was the ship's mental health expert. But then again, Dr. Crusher was a Starfleet Medical Officer, so it made me wonder if Starfleet has a Mental Health department. And if there were, then there's no reason why she wouldn't be in Starfleet issued uniform, unless that when it comes to counselors, the heads of the Mental Health department figured out that officers are more comfortable talking about their mental health with counselors that are dressed in a causal appearnce, not dressed as figures of authority.

That's what I thought initially, but then I remember that she was given command of the bridge on several episodes while they were on a planet or something.

Also let's be clear I am not against cleavage!

I never even noticed really. I always thought Crusher was hotter anyhow with my love of redheads lol.

Wes R said:

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I never even noticed really. I always thought Crusher was hotter anyhow with my love of redheads lol.

I gotta put myself in your camp. I remember that first episode where Crusher dressed up for the holodeck (that Dixon Hill thing), and I remember thinking, "That is one attractive woman!".

Troi I could understand because I figured she was more of a contractor than a member of Starfleet. But a regular uniform for Seven makes more sense than that hot custom outfit they put her in.

I was always more curious about why they had families on a ship that occasionally got shot at in TNG. Or a bar.

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CB2001 said:

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Originally, I always took it that Troi wasn't really a full-on Starfleet officer, as she was the ship's mental health expert. But then again, Dr. Crusher was a Starfleet Medical Officer, so it made me wonder if Starfleet has a Mental Health department. And if there were, then there's no reason why she wouldn't be in Starfleet issued uniform, unless that when it comes to counselors, the heads of the Mental Health department figured out that officers are more comfortable talking about their mental health with counselors that are dressed in a causal appearnce, not dressed as figures of authority.

That MIGHT make sense IF she only wore it during one-on-one counseling sessions (though I have a different take on civilian clothing and comfort levels of military personnel) - HOWEVER... where did she spend most of her on-screen time? Answer: At the Captains side. When ever she was "on duty" (on the bridge, at negotiations, etc.) she should have been either (A) in a uniform or (B) in something more formal and professional.

NormanF said:

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Troi I could understand because I figured she was more of a contractor than a member of Starfleet. But a regular uniform for Seven makes more sense than that hot custom outfit they put her in.

I was always more curious about why they had families on a ship that occasionally got shot at in TNG. Or a bar.

Sent from my Apple Newton

Troi was NOT a "contractor" - she was a graduate of Starfleet Academy and enjoyed an officer commission (even a promotion to full Commander).

As for the families and the bar.... I totally get the bar - given the existence of synthahol, a bar aboard a large starship (especially one meant to host all kinds of dignitaries, from scientists to ambassadors) makes a LOT of sense. Think of the Enterprise less as a submarine, and more like Air Force One.

There's an assumption that Starfleet is a military organization. It's not (dispite what we see in Star Trek II). While it does have a lot of military customs, it's only acts as a military when necessary. It's primary function is exploration. As such, they're a little more lenient with uniform codes. Troy wasn't actually a bridge officer. She didn't have a station on the bridge and I don't recall any other ship where a counselor was present on the bridge all the time. However, Picard had come to rely on her for both her training and empathic abilities.

As for Seven not wearing a uniform... well what kind of sense would that make? She wasn't in Starfleet (though you could argue that neither were the Maquis). But it wouldn't really seem right to liberate her from one collective and make her assimilate to another. That's like saying "the Borg are wrong because they remove your individuality forcefully... now let's force you into our BETTER collective and force you to look like the rest of us."

Well... as far as families on the Enterprise, I think that was more of an experiment. While I think it would be common to find a few on a few starships, I don't think it was common to have them at the extent they were on a Galaxy Class starship. The idea was that the ship was a ship of peace, but when going into a hostile situation, non-essential personnel would either be evacuated before or they could evacuate them quickly by using the saucer section separation. However, we saw how often the saucer section was separated (not very). It didn't have the power or warp drive to really make it a very good option. Afterward, they moved away from the idea of loading ships up with families (we didn't see any children the Enterprise E).

darthgordon said:

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There's an assumption that Starfleet is a military organization. It's not (dispite what we see in Star Trek II). While it does have a lot of military customs, it's only acts as a military when necessary. It's primary function is exploration. As such, they're a little more lenient with uniform codes. Troy wasn't actually a bridge officer. She didn't have a station on the bridge and I don't recall any other ship where a counselor was present on the bridge all the time. However, Picard had come to rely on her for both her training and empathic abilities.

(1) If it's not a military organization in practice, it was certainly modeled after one. We've seen time and time again that they DO have STRICT uniform policies - there are actually a TON of examples of this, not the least of which was the Bajoran earring. I guess you could say it's Captains Discretion (given that Troi was ordered into a standard uniform once Jelico came on board) and Picard had just gone easy on her all these years.

(2) You're absolutely wrong about Troi not being a bridge officer - she absolutely was. She had a station (to the left of the Captain) and was even placed in command when the occasion called for it. She may not have been a COMMAND officer (at least not until Season 7 when she got a promotion), but she was still a bridge officer with a station on the bridge. It's not just a matter of Picard saying "Oh, you're useful to have around" - her duty and purpose on the bridge is to help out with diplomatic situations.

darthgordon said:

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Well... as far as families on the Enterprise, I think that was more of an experiment. While I think it would be common to find a few on a few starships, I don't think it was common to have them at the extent they were on a Galaxy Class starship.
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Afterward, they moved away from the idea of loading ships up with families (we didn't see any children the Enterprise E).

Actually there are other instances of families aboard starships and we don't have to look much further than Sisko's son and wife aboard the Saratoga during the battle of Wolf 359.

The major reason you don't see families aboard starships anymore is this: The Dominion War. Except that it would have been inconvenient from a Writing perspective, the families really should have been evacuated from DS9.

All of the events we've seen the Enterprise-E involved in take place during or shortly after the Dominion War. It's possible, if, after ~5-10 years of peace, Starfleet may allow families again.

Starfleet is classed as a 'paramilitary' organization, more like a police agency (which uses ranks like Captain and Commander) than an actual military.

She does stick out a little doesn't she...


I kinda wish the skant made more appearances-

Marina Sirtis has said that she was a few pounds heavier than they liked for Farpoint, and that's why they went with a diffferent look for her. Note that the skirt is more forgiving to the hips/behind, and the other number she wore early in first season had a padded belt-like thingie around her waist.

I forgot about the belt outfit.

darthgordon said:

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As for Seven not wearing a uniform... well what kind of sense would that make? She wasn't in Starfleet (though you could argue that neither were the Maquis). But it wouldn't really seem right to liberate her from one collective and make her assimilate to another. That's like saying "the Borg are wrong because they remove your individuality forcefully... now let's force you into our BETTER collective and force you to look like the rest of us."

"You can wear anything you want now Seven... as long as it's one of the skin tight outfits we've allotted you replicator access to."

CB2001 said:

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But what if for the Mental Health Staff, that WAS their uniform? By dressing in a normal Starfleet outfit during her time on the bridge and then switching over to the civilian outfit would have sent mixed messages to the crew. She was the mental health expert on the ship, and she probably had people that came up to her during various times of the day. If she wore her Starfleet uniform, it would have told people to not to bother her while part of her job consisted of open interaction with the crew (I remember one time when Troi was walking, one of the crew members came up to her, walked and talked with her). By wearing a casual outfit for a majority of the day, it assured people that needed to talk that she was available to do so, even when she was on the bridge.

That really only deepens my point about wearing two different uniforms. When she's in the "normal" uniform she's 'On-Duty' and not available for non-command sessions. When she's in the "casual" uniform, she's available for walk-ups.

The point is pretty moot as she continues to wear the "normal" Starfleet uniform from Jelico in season 6 on through Voyager and the movies. Given this change, it's likely she probably SHOULD have been wearing the uniform and Picard was just lenient for the first six years.

firesprite said:

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Starfleet is classed as a 'paramilitary' organization, more like a police agency (which uses ranks like Captain and Commander) than an actual military.

I don't think that's an 'official' classification (if anything, Starfleet seems to be classified as 'military' in the original series movies, notably 6, and more than serves that function in other series), but from a uniform perspective it doesn't matter if it's para-military or para-McDonalds - the question is: She's a Starfleet Officer but why is she exempt from a strict uniform policy? She's NOT a civilian, she's NOT an 'honorary' officer or some kind of non-exempt officer (like O'Brian), etc.

There's really only one explanation (in universe): Picard let her (for some reason).

Always loved this look:

Maybe it's not so much that Picard let her, as that Jellico didn't let her, if that makes sense.

I'm inclined to believe that Troi didn't wear the uniform because Picard was lenient. She was just an exception, for some reason, and the casual look for counseling makes a lot of sense to me - but Picard didn't have to allow it.

Now, Beverly Crusher was always the attractive one to me. Like Wes, I'm partial to redheads. Ah well.

Jm419 said:

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Now, Beverly Crusher was always the attractive one to me. Like Wes, I'm partial to redheads. Ah well.

Yep, me too. That makes three of us now.

Orange_Blend said:

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Yep, me too. That makes three of us now.

Four, I believe.

At least Beverly wore the uniform! Other than that, It does sort of make Troi, Seven and T'Pol the (un)intentional calendar girls of the shows!
I'm thinking about this more than I thougt I would, because now I'm wondering why Dr. Pulaski got to wear a uniform of unique tailoring!

LMFAOSchwarz said:

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It does sort of make Troi, Seven and T'Pol the (un)intentional calendar girls of the shows!

Oh I believe that that was FULLY intended:





I think that the problem was that after DS9 (where they brought Worf on in order to improve show ratings), that there wasn't a better idea for the other series than to add new calendar girls.

I'm still sticking to the secret sex slave theory.