Also, he seriously blotted his visual design credentials in Gladiator by choosing a cheesy made-up fantasy helmet for Crowe instead of an authentic Roman piece.cayman shen said:
Also, he seriously blotted his visual design credentials in Gladiator by choosing a cheesy made-up fantasy helmet for Crowe instead of an authentic Roman piece.cayman shen said:
This idea that the room is a cave descends from the cutting of the scenes of the crew entering the ship. You get the impression that they find the pilot at ground level - people don't realize that the pilot's chamber is so high up.Too Much Garlic said:
Unfortunately the idea has been in circulation quite widely for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's been semi-canonized in some comic or whatever by now. Or to see it canonized in the prequel.
Anyone know the current whereabouts/condition of the derelict model? It was extant as of the start of the decade, but now?
Not any more, it was sold (auctioned) some years back. Fate since is unknown AFAIK.
It was in desperately bad condition, but it was miraculous the thing was recognisable at all given the construction technique - steel frame, polystyrene foam blocks placed over that and sculpted, then sulphur-based clay on top of that, then wires and electronic components pressed in, then paint. A work of art, but if only they'd used it as a moulding master instead of the final miniature! Almost all the clay was gone, in the most recent public-domain pics.
God, I love that ship. Stupid, stupid unrequited loves!
Why would they waste time and money on molding and casting it when it was only needed for very few shots... and they had the master? Doesn't make sense.
For POSTERITY, of course!!! Didn't they *realize* they were making a timeless masterpiece!?!?!
No, of course they had no reason to waste time and money that way. I entirely understand that.
It just, y'know, would have been nice if for some reason they *had*.
Here's the thing- "canon" to me is what I see onscreen. And unfortunately at no time during that sequence do I get the impression that Kane, Dallas and Lambert went "up" to the Space Jockey chamber, to then proceed "down" to the egg chamber.Nwerke said:
As for the "cave" looking much like the ship itself... everything about LV-426 from the Derelict to the Jockey to LV-426 itself was designed by Giger. Even the landscape of LV-426 looks similar to the Derelict- it has that Giger "effect" to it.
So it stands to reason that a "cave" on LV-426 has that Giger-ized look to it. Or perhaps the interior of the Derelict looks like the cave (not the other way around)... because the aliens converted it to look that way before they died off. I mean all we see of the interior of the Derelict are the Jockey Chamber and cave.
But again... all supposition.
Of course the Alien looks "similar" to the Space Jockey as they were both designed by Giger and that it has been established in A3 that the Alien takes on the traits of its host.the space jockey itself having some of the same anatomical features as the alien creature.
The thing that got me going in this direction is Kane's line "A cave! A cave of some sort!"
He didn't call it a "hold" or "chamber" etc.
It is miniscule and probably nothing- but I do like extrapolating what could be read between the lines.
To me it's like an episode of The Twilight Zone- in which the twist at the end is that the scenario that appears to be happening for the first time, has actually played itself out several times before- perhaps for centuries.
Kevin
Actually, if you want to settle the issue, dig around for the quotes from Ridley.. he said outright at some point that the ship was transporting the eggs when it crashed.
Just watched the movie. The Nebraska line of dialogue was said as they were about to venture right into ground zero and was an exaggeration. Earlier, when he showed off the ventilation exhaust due to the dropship crash causing the eventual nuclear explosion he stated pretty specifically that the blast-radius would be 30 kilometres.Jedi2016 said:
If they were taking a week to get there and back over rough terrain... it's pretty obvious they didn't stay within the blast radius at all, so the Derelict wasn't taken out by the thermo-nuclear explosion.
That's not an "of course". The aliens we see didn't come out of the space jockey, so there should be no reason they share anatomical similarities, unless they are part of the same "species" or "fabrication".SSgt Burton said:
Always thought they were genetically produced weapons of war - the space jockey was pilots and the aliens were the ground based weapons of some other unseen species. Perhaps Ridley will get more into that. However... the more we are to learn... the less it makes sense that the Company sends Nostromo to the Derelict - it seems Nostromo passed the Derelict by accident rather than they were specifically sent there... but it would make sense that if the company knew that there were other species out there or leftovers of their civilization and weapons littered across space that all ships they send out could have secret orders only implemented if the ships comes across something. It just wouldn't be logical if the species that is responsible for the derelict, space jockey and the alien creature to still exist... or The Company would have been more up front about it and not playing it on the low to get to the weapon - if the other species was out there and the Company wanted the "alien weapon" to use against them... I don't think something like that could or would be kept secret - more would know: government, military, perhaps not population... but more would know, if there was a war going.
The only thing that makes sense and the reason why they are playing it so close to the chest is that it is dead alien tech they want to use in bio-warfare against other people - perhaps settlers who are not doing what they like and want independence. We certainly hear that places are terraformed and people living there have evolved. Have they met other alien lifeforms - the meeting at the beginning of Aliens may suggest no... but though, they do only comment on that nothing like what Ripley describes regarding the alien has been found... so doesn't exclude other alien life.
But since this is a prequel... and it didn't seem like they were aware of alien life in the Ridley movie... it just seems unlikely that they have met anything other than human settlers on their travels. Only human.
Another thing. When at the hearing Ripley said that Kane had said that he saw thousands of eggs on the Derelict, but during the movie, she suddenly switches to wondering about who's laying the eggs. Never thought of that before, but it seems like such an out of place switch from knowing there were thousands of eggs... to suddenly starting the conversation that leads to the discussion about the queen - I know it was to set that up... but still a bit strange.
Last edited by Too Much Garlic; Apr 25, 2010 at 2:16 PM.
Too Much Garlic said:
Too Much Garlic said:
So which is it?
Just curious.
Kevin
Me too. Giger's paintings of it are masterpieces of modern art that totally transcend the SF genre that called them into being. He was a Great Artist, a late-born surrealist, for heaven's sake, a worthy heir to the mantles worn by Dali and Max Ernst. The aesthetic he invented is so powerful it actually competes with that of the original Surrealists. Indeed, he earned the admiration of Dali himself.Nwerke said:
God, I love that ship. Stupid, stupid unrequited loves!
This is what Scott was so fortunate to latch onto in Giger. Scott was playing host to one of the great cultural events of the 20th Century; he was able to introduce to the world, via his film, one of the greatest visionaries of all time. Revolutions such as Giger's don't happen often; in fact, all Giger himself can do now is repeat himself, he can't come up with a whole new equally compelling aesthetic, and how could he be expected to? Which is why all reboots of Alien are doomed to live in the shadow of the first film. And it's why, for me at least, all talk of the back story to the derelict is almost pathetically irrelevant compared to its value as pure image.
(Yeah, I know, I should bugger off to an art forum, and do my art lectures there, heh, heh...)
Last edited by Colin Droidmilk; Apr 28, 2010 at 2:19 AM.
Well, she never bumped into any eggs during the first film (theatrical version at least), and that if there was going to be any eggs, it would need a living host, which is not what the alien was doing (Again, only in the theatrical version).Too Much Garlic said:
Which is what? They are the same genetic fabrication? To the best of my knowledge that has not really been revealed, now has it!SSgt Burton said:
The aliens we see weren't born from the space jockey, so why they share anatomical similarities with the space jockey when born from people and dogs/cows can only mean that they are part of the same species or genetically engineered fabrication by some third unknown species we haven't seen yet.
Which goes back to my earlier comment that the space jockey is a genetically engineered pilot and the aliens are a genetically engineered ground based weapon just dropped on an inhabited planet the "masters" want to take over or whatever reason they want with the place. Maybe they just feel that all other intelligent life is an affront to their religion or their own superiority so they just send in the jockeyed spaceships with payloads of alien egg bombs to exterminate everything. Who knows their reasons.
The hearing scene was in the theatrical cut of Aliens. So... what are you implying? There is an illogical switch from knowing there are thousands of eggs at the Derelict to suddenly wondering who's laying the eggs just to set up the Queen. Who cares who's laying eggs when there are already thousands of them. No need for an egg-layer.Jeyl said:
If you listen to her, she states "But each one of these things comes from an egg." See? Not so illogical.Too Much Garlic said:
Yes, and earlier in the movie she said that there were thousands of eggs. So again... the part about all of them coming from eggs shouldn't be an issue.Jeyl said:
Hey if Giger gets on board, I'll be first in line at the box office. His nightmarish visions are what intoxicates the first film. It truly looks Alien and not a man in a rubber suit, nor a crappy CGI critter. I'd be absolutely delighted if they could somehow use the original design in all it's horrific glory.
Dave
http://io9.com/5525820/the-classic-a...requels-at-all
The acid-blood sleek-skinned aliens dreamed up by H.R. Giger and Ridley Scott are among the most memorable creature designs in movie history. But Scott says they're "worn out" thanks to endless sequels, and they won't be in his new prequels.
In an interview with Screen Daily, the director revealed that he has plans to redesign the aliens, and show how they became the majestic killing machines we know and love.
He also explains a bit more about the storyline of his two prequels:
The film will be really tough, really nasty. It's the dark side of the moon. We are talking about gods and engineers. Engineers of space. And were the aliens designed as a form of biological warfare? Or biology that would actually go in and clean up a planet? It will take place in the years before that, when they first come across this thing on a planet called Zeta Reticuli. ...
Yeah, the thing about Alien vs Predator is, I know it's commerce, but what a pity... I think, therefore, I have to design - or redesign - earlier versions of what these elements are that led to the thing you finally see in Alien, which is the thing that catapults out of the egg, the face-hugger. I don't want to repeat it. The alien in a sense, as a shape, is worn out."
So what do you think these new aliens will look like? And what could these "gods and engineers" who designed the ultimate biological weapon have been like?
Hmm. No classic aliens? I think my interest went up a couple of notches.alienscollection.com said:
I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. She asks a question how these eggs are being made. It's logical. She knows they come from eggs, she knows that the alien warriors don't lay the eggs, so what does?Too Much Garlic said:
The fact the Ripley asks where the eggs come from stems from them trying to figure out more effective (or at least different) ways to kill the Aliens before they run out of ammo.
So she asks about part of the reproductive cycle- the idea that these eggs had to come from "somewhere." I think it was asked in a hope to discover a weakness the Aliens have- nothing to do about the number of eggs greatly outnumbering the colonists.
I understand the point that Too Much is getting at, but I don't think it applies to the context of Ripley's conversation with Bishop.
Kevin
Please go back and watch the movie. There would be no reason to think about an egg-layer when she knows there are already thousands of eggs on the planet, so it shouldn't surprise her that there are enough to infect the whole colony.Jeyl said:
She stated at the hearing that the Derelict wasn't indigenous and that Kane saw thousands of eggs. You don't begin asking who's laying the eggs if you find an old truck full of chicken eggs with enough to give you salmonella if you eat them.SSgt Burton said:
It's an illogical switch from knowing to unknowing just to set up the queen.
Personally I don't know what to think of the two announced prequel movies. It's good to see Scott back in the director's chair and I like what he's saying about the movie(s) and that he wants Hans Rudi back on board, on the other hand Scott hasn't made a movie that really thrilled me in a long time. But surely even a "bad" Ridley Scott movie would be much better than 3 and 4
A couple of weeks ago I watched the Alien DVD with Ridley Scott's audiocommentary (from 1999 afaik) and thought it was pretty interesting, especially since now he actually is making a prequel. I tried to write down a couple of his lines for you concerning the derelict:
"I always wanted to go back and make an Alien 5 or 6 where we find out where they came from and go there and answer the question: Who are they? Mars is too close, so they can't be gods of war but the theory in my head was that this was an aircraft carrier, a battle wagon, of a civilisation and the eggs were a cargo which were essentially weapons. So like a large form of bacteriological stroke, biomechanoid warfare. […] The space jockey I've always thought was the driver of the craft who is now after many ages, of cause it would be dustless but, has started to look like a perfect example of Giger's mind which is „where does biology end and technology begin“ because he seems to have grafted the creature into what essentially was, let's say, a pilot seat. But clearly from here this is where the transmission would emanate from, propably in an automatic transmission, so this creature obviously has experienced that maybe one of the eggs had been disturbed and a creature had got out and attacked the rest of the crew, don't ask me where they got to. He's pretty gruesome, but let's say he was part of the civilisation he came from and had now melded into his seat. […] So he [Kane] is being lowered into the hold, this would be argued as the hold of the ship."
Last edited by barbatus; Apr 29, 2010 at 5:18 AM.
I like the idea of the Xeno being re-designed to show it in its prototype form as the Jockey or the jockey's creator worked to prefect walking death. If they are supposed to be a true bio-mech creature, then it would be hard to go from design to perfection without some prototypes.
The 30 years in the past part though, it just seems abrupt, maybe back date to when the mining worlds are first being colonized, and the long haul freighter idea is still in its infancy as well.
I'm definately in the bandwagon of "i dont want it all explained". To me the first film had the mystery that keeps one captivated and excited. To have that all explained away will just, well, ruin any preconcieved notions I had about the first film and will, if it goes in the direction people are saying it is going, cheapen the first film in my opinion... I cant watch it the same anymore.
I know they are likely going to get Giger involved, but oh if they allow him to explore all the things he wanted to do with the creature in Alien 3, oh god I'll put a pistol in my mouth!
Dont change things up for the sake of change just because you feel that this icon of cinema has tired itself out; to be honest it was that train of thought and all the sequel designs for the creature which spawned from it that what ruined it for me... ridged heads? Dog alien? human-dna-infused, fleshy aliens? The NEWBORN!?!?! UGGH!!!
Just bring back the original 79 design already! I miss it so much and I'll pay my weight in gold just to see it terrorize the screens again. dont cheapen it to the point that this monster is merely nothing more than a scratch-built weapon from an R&D department (or a spiny leopard beast with "erotic lips" for that matter)...
I've always wanted to see the Jockeys being the intelligent species of their planet, harvesting the narutally-occuring Aliens as a beast of burden (or trading with the Preds, though I know nobody will ever allow that storyline to develop) and using them as tools of war against another sentient species. Eventually their planet was destroyed in a major battle, leaving the jockey from the first film, and his Alien cargo, the supposed last of their kind, and in desperation he tried one last suicide assault upon his enemies.
However, I've speculated that this move was purposely forseen, and the enemy species would have sabotaged any surviving ships with some stolen eggs, thus killing any remaining jockeys and forcing them to drift or crash land. The signal to stay way would have been transmitted by the jockey from the first film as a warning for any possible survivors of his species to stay away since not only was he infected, but he speculates the ship would have likely been damaged and the barriers to the cargo hold demolished/deactivated which would mean that ANYONE who comes to help will meet their doom at the hand of the eggs.
So it sits there, for an untold length of time, and eventually they Company picks up the signal and sends a ship to investigate. Ultimately the mission ends in tragedy since all personel would be lost due to contact with the aliens, so they have to rethink things, cover it up, and go under the radar for their second recovery attempt, the Nostromo Project, which is how the first film begins.
Its been a while since I actually saw the film, but this idea of a backstory has always remained fresh in my mind and seemed plausible and mysterious (I.E. not explaining too much about the creatures themselves) without ruining the Alien creature for me. Then again, I've always liked the "pyramid" theory of a mysterious and long dead race, one that offers the Aliens as a sacrifice to their "god" similar to the practices of slaughtering lambs and calfs, or having them be ceremonial "food" stored in their temple, and the Jockey being an unfortunate victim just like the Nostromo crew. But its always been a hastle to come up with a backstory to that, though it does seem simpler and more mysterious just like the first film, and all in all I'd like to see either story be used as inspiration for this prequels plot.
I know I'm setting myself up for the slaughter here, but I cant really fathom a film set so soon before the first film that directly involves the Jockey creature and portrays the Aliens, which used to live out there in deep space and terrorize various planets throughout the galaxy as far as popular image is concerned, as mere "nearly organic" machines/terminators fabricated in a lab for the Jockeys, which sort of cheapens the forbodingness and sense of terror they once held as a force of nature that had to be dealt with, but to to avail.
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