Rewatched Tron Legacy (ramble on)

Wakeem said:

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I need to get my thoughts together on Legacy and read another thread. However, I have a question that I'm not sure about.

Is Clu some sort of linked copy of Flynn? There are a lot of things in the movie that would point to this being the case. But if is true, it also damages a lot of the motivations and intelligence of some of the characters. What do you guys/girls think?

CLU in T:L is sort of a copy of who Flynn used to be, but is still a program nonetheless. Things that suggest this is that when Flynn created CLU, he does it with a panel that looks like a mirror, and it reveals CLU on the other side of the panel having been created. There is also the fact that Quorra and Sam don't trigger the floor lights in Flynn's hideout, that Flynn does this (when he turns around to see Sam) and CLU does (when he steps onto the panel after coming up the lift). Flynn himself says, "He's me." I think what many people fail to get is that the difference between CLU in the first TRON and CLU (aka CLU 2.0) in T:L is the manner in which they were created. The first CLU was created in a typical fashion, with Flynn on the outside typing in code and developing him. The second CLU was basically a copy of Flynn from within the computer system. I think that's why the whole "reintegration" bit was brought up, because of the fact that CLU mirrors Flynn's information so closely that if Flynn attempted to do so would have possibly destroyed both of them. But they are two separate sides of the same coin, two individuals that are separate from each other despite having almost the same personality. The difference between them was that CLU couldn't deviate from his main primary function (to create the perfect system) while Flynn could change his goals and priorities (he started off the Grid for one purpose {I think it may have been to develop it as sort of a sandbox program for everyone from scientists to high school students to use} and then changed his priorities when he discovered the ISOs).

It doesn't damage anything. It only shows that the only person who has no real clue about CLU is Sam. To Sam, CLU was just another program, something that could be shutdown and deleted from the outside. He didn't know how his father created him, only that he created him. For all Sam knew, CLU could have been programmed in the same manner as any other program circa 1989. If you feel it damages any characters motivations and intelligences, could you please point out examples of what you mean?

JPolacchi said:

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Hmm....I need to mention specifics of why Tron Legacy was so bad? Geese...you don't know what you are asking from me because I'm bound to really hurt someone's feelings. I'll try to keep it as civil as possible but look, it has the very dull,predictable Hollywood Disney plot.There was nothing new added to it.It was virtually a carbon copy of the original, just flipped over on itself.

You're right. I forgot that in the first film Kevin Flynn's Dad was trapped in the grid for many years prior and he had to go in and save Father Flynn. I believe his Dad originally got stuck in the grid playing backgammon with ol' Uncle Remis.

The think that bothered me most wasn't the story, but the effects.

The original LOOKED weird. It had the whole blue glow happening and was nothing like the real world. Tron Legacy just looked like black rooms and black clothes with lights stuck on them.

Me?

I didn't like it.

I found myself extremely attracted to Quorra, though.

Seriously, I want her.

CTF said:

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Me?

I didn't like it.

I found myself extremely attracted to Quorra, though.

Seriously, I want her.

Go to your nearby Big Lots*. They've got T:L merchandise for sell. I picked up three of her for customizing purposes for only $4 each. You can have as many of her as you want.


*Merchandise may vary depending on the store, as all Big Lot stores may not carry the same merchandise or do have it, but carry different items of said merchandise.

I wish they made a deluxe figure of Quorra. I am not a fan of those little 3" versions that have a helmet fixed on the head. It would have been smarter to have switch-out heads or something. The majority of the film showed her face and that's prominently what they should have done on the toy.

niennumb1 said:

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I wish they made a deluxe figure of Quorra. I am not a fan of those little 3" versions that have a helmet fixed on the head. It would have been smarter to have switch-out heads or something. The majority of the film showed her face and that's prominently what they should have done on the toy.

Well, from what I've read, Spinmasters (the company that made the toys) had no idea about how little screentime the helmet had in the film when they made the figure. By the time they found out, they began planning a Series 3 line that would have included not only an unmasked Quorra, but a pre-Clu Coup TRON without helmet as well. But that fell through due to the decline in sales (who knows, they may resurrect the line due to TRON: Uprising).

However, a lot of fans of the film have actually replaced the head with other heads. I know that one of the most recommended action figure to use for a headswap is Irina Spalko from the Indiana Jones figure line, as the haircut is the same as Quorra's (some have said that by repainting the face with a lighter skintone, the face looks much younger). I know of others who have used other heads from the recent G.I. Joe line. In fact, one of the most impressive headswaps was using a Dusty head for a Sam Flynn custom. It looks pretty dead-on to the actor who played him. There's a whole topic about it at the Tron-Sector forum (I found out about it because I asked after I picked up a lot of T:L figures with the intention to customize from Big Lots).

In fact, I recently picked up another Quorra figure, to which I intend to create a T:L version of Yori. That's just one of the many customs I've got bouncing around in my head (most of them are simple headswaps, only a couple of them require major modifications).

Jannix Quinn said:

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The think that bothered me most wasn't the story, but the effects.

The original LOOKED weird. It had the whole blue glow happening and was nothing like the real world. Tron Legacy just looked like black rooms and black clothes with lights stuck on them.

I agree with this. It just didn't LOOK right to me. That why I said earlier it could have just been another planet or something. It just didn't look like a computer world to me. EVEN THOUGH it was all cgi--yeah I know, I set myself up for that one...

And while the suits did look cool (for any other movie) I thought they just didn't work for this movie.

I kept thinking maybe if all the actors faces had been done like Clu's while in the system, maybe it would have lent itself to feeling more....computery..

I took the different look of the Grid to reflect Kevin's influence since he said he built a new one. The original in Tron was a corporate mainframe which may explain how stripped down it was (besides the obvious tech changes from then to now). Even when Alan was kicked out of working on Tron it appeared that it was a very locked down system. Kevin's was more "open source" which is what I think eventually led to the Iso's.

Just my .02

I love Legacy.

There is a little glitch that keeps bugging me.

When they talk about Flynn, they mention his two most famous game programs as Space Paranoids and Tron.

Well Alan wrote Tron is it was NOT a game.

Just sayin'.

And the Soundtrack is awesome, first new soundtrack I have bought in 10 years.

micdavis said:

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I love Legacy.

There is a little glitch that keeps bugging me.

When they talk about Flynn, they mention his two most famous game programs as Space Paranoids and Tron.

Well Alan wrote Tron is it was NOT a game.

Just sayin'.

And the Soundtrack is awesome, first new soundtrack I have bought in 10 years.

Well, according to Flynn Lives ARG and even the TRON: Betrayal comic (and its even mentioned in the non-canon TRON 2.0 video game), after the events of the first film, Kevin Flynn developed an arcade game based on his experiences in the computer system from the first film. And he even asked Alan if it was okay to reuse his program's name for the arcade game. So, there are basically two in-story items named TRON: 1. Alan's Security Program 2. The arcade game that Kevin Flynn created based on his adventure from the first film.

I hope that clears up any confusion, as it appears that you were mixing up the arcade game with Alan Bradley's program.

I did not know that. Thank you.

I never played, owned or was aware of anything that happened in the game.

micdavis said:

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I did not know that. Thank you.

I never played, owned or was aware of anything that happened in the game.

It's no problem. The filmmakers tried to give the hint in the film that after the events with Flynn that he made the arcade game about what happened to him (not only is the game mentioned in the news report, but the arcade machine featured in the film was the same arcade game that was released at the time the original film came out by Bally/Midway, only with the main marquee changed to show that the game was created by Encom within the film's universe. So, logic deduces that for the story universe's version of the TRON game is the same as the game in our world).

You know what? I am actually going to retract some of the things I have said earlier.. Legacy was on one of the movie channels the other night and I watched it again..I will have to admit that this time I really enjoyed it. It's still not the Tron movie I would have liked but it really is NOT a bad movie.

The disc war is really cool...The light cycle game, while still not what I wanted, was indeed pretty cool...The music is awesome.

The cinematography is really good. I may get blasted for saying this--but there is a lot of a "Kubrick" feel to the look of this film. The stark contrasts of color, the linear perspective, the lighting--all kind of reminded me of 2001 and Clockwork Orange....

There is also a lot of Bladerunner going on in this movie.

I think this thread has helped me appreciate this film more than I did before. I think I was finally able to let go of what "I wanted" and just go with it. And I really enjoyed it the most on this 6th or 7th viewing.. Looking deeper into more of the underlying motivations of the charactors, that have been explained here, opened my eyes a little bit.

So bravo you guys! I am always willing to admit if I am wrong and I think I was.

I still have a few nitpicks though; no 90 degree turns on the lightcycles and I wish that when they had done some of the flashbacks of Flynn and Tron they had done that in the style of the first movie. It could have been a little different but I think it would have helped to tie the two movies together. And I still think the Rinzler/Tron deal was not played up enough. It still seems like an afterthought to me..

BUT, all that said, I have changed my opinion of this movie

Laspector said:

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You know what? I am actually going to retract some of the things I have said earlier.. Legacy was on one of the movie channels the other night and I watched it again..I will have to admit that this time I really enjoyed it. It's still not the Tron movie I would have liked but it really is NOT a bad movie.

The disc war is really cool...The light cycle game, while still not what I wanted, was indeed pretty cool...The music is awesome.

The cinematography is really good. I may get blasted for saying this--but there is a lot of a "Kubrick" feel to the look of this film. The stark contrasts of color, the linear perspective, the lighting--all kind of reminded me of 2001 and Clockwork Orange....

There is also a lot of Bladerunner going on in this movie.

I think this thread has helped me appreciate this film more than I did before. I think I was finally able to let go of what "I wanted" and just go with it. And I really enjoyed it the most on this 6th or 7th viewing.. Looking deeper into more of the underlying motivations of the charactors, that have been explained here, opened my eyes a little bit.

So bravo you guys! I am always willing to admit if I am wrong and I think I was.

I still have a few nitpicks though; no 90 degree turns on the lightcycles and I wish that when they had done some of the flashbacks of Flynn and Tron they had done that in the style of the first movie. It could have been a little different but I think it would have helped to tie the two movies together. And I still think the Rinzler/Tron deal was not played up enough. It still seems like an afterthought to me..

BUT, all that said, I have changed my opinion of this movie

Kudos to you for being able to keep an open mind and your willingness to admit to change.

Laspector said:

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The cinematography is really good. I may get blasted for saying this--but there is a lot of a "Kubrick" feel to the look of this film. The stark contrasts of color, the linear perspective, the lighting--all kind of reminded me of 2001 and Clockwork Orange....

I consider myself a pretty big Kubrick fan and you wont get any complaints from me about the Kubrick style comparison. I noticed the same thing when I saw the film. Aside from the scene which seemed to be inspired by Kubrick (2001: A Space Odyssey dinner scene, Clockwork Orange Zuse dance act), the cinemtagraphy used a lot of symmetrical centered composition, which very few directors use since it takes a bit more work to pull off. It was refreshing to see a film use this type of composition again, instead of the rule of thirds.

Larry Young said:

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What do you mean by linked copy?

I guess I'll have to define what I mean in my next post. But it is a big idea presented in Legacy that it seems like many missed.

CB2001 said:

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If you feel it damages any characters motivations and intelligences, could you please point out examples of what you mean?

I'll get to what I believe are the problems with Legacy. I want to watch it one more time and get my notes together.

Anyone else think Clu was a linked copy of Flynn?

I rewatched it the other say myself. I love the flick, great sequel. I will admit tho, the lip sync on the young kevin flynn is off a bit, but otherwise looked spectacular.

Also looking forward to the new cartoon series.

I'm not sure the sync is off; I watched TRON the other day and Jeff Bridges has a wacky speaking musculature. I think the sync looks off because live Bridges looks like that when he speaks.

Larry Young said:

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I'm not sure the sync is off; I watched TRON the other day and Jeff Bridges has a wacky speaking musculature. I think the sync looks off because live Bridges looks like that when he speaks.

I think the sync looks off because they can't do CGI lips any better than they do in the E*Trade talking baby commercials.

Having the villain look inferior to secondary characters really just accentuates the not-quite-there CGI. I was happier with the movie the first time I saw it. It was a CAM version on a friend's smartphone.

All this is just my opinion. You can have your own, if you want to be stupid.

(I kid.)

Oh, and by the way....

Will We See Cindy Morgan Return As Yori/Lora For Tron 3?

I TOTALLY hope this happens.

Lacey Underall......yeah baby.

CB2001 said:

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Well, from what I've read, Spinmasters (the company that made the toys) had no idea about how little screentime the helmet had in the film when they made the figure. By the time they found out, they began planning a Series 3 line that would have included not only an unmasked Quorra, but a pre-Clu Coup TRON without helmet as well. But that fell through due to the decline in sales (who knows, they may resurrect the line due to TRON: Uprising).

Really? I thought the reason they put the helmet on her was because Olivia Wilde wouldn't let Spinmasters have the rights to her likeness. You remember the Terminator Salvation toy line? Playmates couldn't clear Christian Bale's likeness so all of the John Conner figures were essentially regular resistance figures that were wearing huge helmets with goggles so you couldn't see his face. The best one was the smaller John Conner figure that wore a face covering scarf with glasses and a cap. Funny part is when you actually watch the movie, that's what Kyle Reese wears! Not John Conner.

The only toys I got from the Tron line were the diecast vehicles, especially the light jets.

Jeyl said:

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Really? I thought the reason they put the helmet on her was because Olivia Wilde wouldn't let Spinmasters have the rights to her likeness.

Sideshow Toys better get Olivia Wilde's likeness for their Quorra statue. Or else no sale.