Michael Bay

If I said Michael Bay was my favorite director (he is most certainly not) would you regard my further opinions on movies differently? Wouldn't you take that information into consideration when evaluating how much stock to put in my opinions of movies?

Aren't polarizing subjects like Michael Bay and the Star Wars prequels actually a good indicator of identifying like minded people, and wouldn't you value their opinions a little more or less accordingly?

Should fans of Michael Bay feel attacked personally over some of the harsh words in this thread?
 
If I said Michael Bay was my favorite director (he is most certainly not) would you regard my further opinions on movies differently? Wouldn't you take that information into consideration when evaluating how much stock to put in my opinions of movies?

Yes. Absolutely. :)

Should fans of Michael Bay feel attacked personally over some of the harsh words in this thread?

Not unless they are Michael Bay. Not everyone likes the same stuff. The world would be horribly boring if everyone did like the same stuff. Qualifier statement finished......on to the comparison. Now, Spielberg has made some turkeys in his career, and for some movies....like 1941...you can argue either side of the coin. However, his batting average is pretty good, and he hits them out of the park fairly regularly. Michael Bay's batting average is, for me, below the mendoza line in terms of quality. Even his 'good' (loosely using that term despite the pain it causes me) movies are horribly flawed. Every movie of his I have seen came up short. Every one. This is the guy who was interning on 'Raiders' and thought it would be terrible. Apparently it needed more explosions and bad dialogue.
 
I judge movies on how entertained I was watching them. That means I can find a senseless visually-overloading movie good just like I can find a dramatic period piece that wins Oscars good. I don't judge the things I watch by the same scale, I judge them based on why I watch them in the first place.

Was Pain and Gain a great cinematic experience? Heck no. Was it an entertaining movie that kept me interested for the duration, left me laughing at times and was just a plain fun way to pass a couple of hours? Yep.
 
Now your argument is invalid!:p
(hey, I like AVP:R!)

Dammit...every soldier of spoken to is clearly not looking for a coherent storyline. I'd say a high percentage of them loved Transformers, but went on to slam Godzilla saying it was boring, or that the military portions weren't 1000% accurate..."Why would he leave his wife when he just got back from deployment?!" Gee, I dunno, to have him move from one scene to the next as a first hand witness of Godzilla's destructive path. Whereas, Bay will just have the characters transport to the next scene with no coherent explanation for who or why someone has shown up. Optimus flys into the sunset!:facepalm Seriously, that ticked me off guys!
 
Well, first, I'm going to refer you to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines ;)

And then I'll address your questions more seriously.

If I said Michael Bay was my favorite director (he is most certainly not) would you regard my further opinions on movies differently? Wouldn't you take that information into consideration when evaluating how much stock to put in my opinions of movies?

I would, yes. I would think that your tastes and mine are unlikely to overlap. It would depend, however, on why you liked his stuff. If you liked it because you literally just wanted to see images of robots fighting and things exploding and stuff, and you knew -- and didn't care -- that the film was otherwise offensive and/or incoherent, I could respect that, even if I didn't agree with it. I mean, I love watching awful, cheesy films like Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins! and Gymkata and other similarly bad films. I love them because they're absurd and terrible and hysterical, and that entertains me. So if you love you some Michael Bay films on a similar level, hey, that's cool. Different strokes and all.

But if you think his movies are qualitatively good, then we have a problem. ;)

Aren't polarizing subjects like Michael Bay and the Star Wars prequels actually a good indicator of identifying like minded people, and wouldn't you value their opinions a little more or less accordingly?

To a degree, yes. A person's appreciation of this or that producer/director/style of film can be an indicator of their tastes. But it's not always 100% reliable. For example, I just mentioned that I love dumb action movies from the 80s. If that was mostly all you knew about my tastes in film, it might surprise you to know that I've been watching my way through -- and loving -- a series of BBC teleplays of Shakespeare's histories, beginning with Richard II and working their way through Richard III in order of king's reign (Richard II, Henry IV parts 1 and 2, Henry V, Henry VI parts 1-3, Richard III). It's basically the Shakespearean version of the Wars of the Roses and it's AWESOME. So, one's taste in one area isn't always indicative of their tastes in other areas.

I think a better indicator of someone's tastes is their reasons behind their enjoyment. And as for whether I can agree with someone or at least get along with them in this setting, that often depends on how well they can explain their position, and how respectfully they can state their opinions.

Should fans of Michael Bay feel attacked personally over some of the harsh words in this thread?

Generally, no. Attacking Michael Bay isn't the same thing as attacking Michael Bay fans. Although, it depends again on why/how they enjoy his films. Again, if you're of the opinion that his stuff is just entertaining fluff, on a certain level, I say "Rock on." Enjoy yourself your way, and I'll enjoy myself my way. If you try to argue that Michael Bay is a good story teller, I will gladly debate you and prove you wrong. :)

But that raises a related issue about internet discussions and such. Very often, people identify personally with this or that bit of entertainment or this or that creator (Michael Bay, George Lucas, JJ Abrams, Chris Nolan, etc.). Their fandom runs deep enough that it forms a portion of their identity, to the point where if you attack the object of their fandom, you attack them. I have very little patience or time for arguments with folks like this, for two reasons. First, it gets exhausting trying to explain -- again -- that I'm not saying they're an idiot for liking this or that, but rather that I think the thing they like itself is idiotic, which is not the same thing. Second, because folks like that lack the ability to distinguish between "playing the ball" and "playing the man," they typically resort to abusive ad hominem arguments. I don't respect people who do this. Moreover, their attacks eventually either exhaust me or get me to a point where I lose my patience and lash out at them, typically in a fairly blistering way, and all that does is poison what could otherwise be pleasant discussions online.


Anyway, the one thing I'd say about Michael Bay and Michael Bay fans is this. My ultimate problem with guys like Michael Bay is that they are fundamentally lazy. Personally, I think it is possible to make films that speak both to people who want a coherent story, and to people who want a spectacle. The two are not mutually exclusive. But when guys like Michael Bay succeed, all it tells the suits is "Keep up the good (crappy) work." It tells them they don't HAVE to try, because even with racist robot caricatures, and robot testicles, and statutory rape jokes, even with completely incoherent or contradictory or continuity-destroying plot points, people don't care as long as you show them explosions, robots punching each other, and the occasional slow-mo pan of military hardware or a girl's T and/or A. I encourage people who want a big spectacle to be more discerning with their dollars and to spend them on stuff that gives them a spectacle AND an entertaining story, rather than just the one at the expense of the other.
 
It's in vogue for sci-fi fans to Bay bash. Not that he doesn't earn it to a degree, but it's more 'cool' to knock his work right now than anything. Don't forget, people used to say the same things about Spielberg, too! Maybe when Bay gets older, he'll make his own 'serious' movies.
I liked Armaggedon in that I viewed it as a dark comedy to a degree. And there are folks at NASA who will admit in private that they liked the film. I know a few real astronauts who liked the movie, but will never admit it in public.
The Transformers movies slowly devolved into... well, I don't know what to call it. But the first one was very well done and entertaining. I think people hated all the Transformers movies mostly in direct relation to how familiar they were with the toys and cartoons. Those like myself who were just a little too old to play with the toys or watch the show (or mostly in my case, thought it was pretyt silly to start with) had the greatest shot an enjoying the first movie. I will agree they slid downhill in quality, though.
Pearl Harbor, though, was a tough one for me. It has it's moments, such as seeing an amazing pre-attacj recreation of Ford Island which was worth the ticket price to me, to see that on a big screen. But yeah, the vets deserved SO much better than that...
 
Michael bay does not care about transformers, and he knows that there crappy movies, but he just doesn't care what people think and he doesnt care about transformers because he's just in it for the paycheck!! Which really makes me mad because he is making crap movies and ruining his reputation. The only reason people see transformers is because, IT'S FREAKING TRANSFOMERS!!!

But he is ruining his reputation. After TRANSFOMERS is over, he will probably make a movie he really cares about, put all his time and effort and love into it. Then nobody's gonna see it because of what he did with TRANSFOMERS, he has officially ruined his reputation as a director. He really didn't think this threw.
 
I cannot think of a single Michael Bay hit that wasn't basically a surefire hit before they even started preproduction. Giving him credit for making successful movies is like giving George W. Bush credit for working his way up in life to become president.
 
Not gonna lie. First Transformers was serviceable to me. Blackout's scene was a show stopper along with the Brawl in the city at the end. Starscream was nice and sleazy despite his short appearances. Could've been better of course.
 
If I recall, after the public Bay'blame of the Islands failure being placed on the stars, Bay's career was in the toilet. His arm was somewhat twisted to do Transformers in which he didnt want to do. It wasnt until the military became involved his hatred for the project turned. I also seem to want to recall him wanting to do his own film prior to Transformers, which I keep assuming was what would be Pain and Gain as I seem to, yet again recall, the potential film being based on a true story and nothing what Bay was known for up to that point.

I could be completely wrong with all that but for much of it I have first hand memories.

Beyond that, Pain and Gain was great! As grossly inaccurate it is from the story, to facts to items and locations... it was entertaining which is boat loads more than 99% of anything else in theaters. Like many other big name directors Bay movies have a look and style. Using that in Pain and Gain surprisingly made it that much more entertaining.
 
I will never pay to see a Bay movie in theatre, after the unforgivable Transformers 2.


That's how I felt after seeing the first TF movie. Nothing but eye candy. Literally nothing else to offer. As a film buff it kind of depressed me how much everyone loved that first one.


Then the 2nd one came out. Nothing but more eye candy. Literally nothing else to offer, again. But this time everyone hated it. I never understood why the reaction was so much different.
 
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