Avengers Movie SPOILER Thread

[CessnaDriver]

I agree that death can be a good thing in a story. But doing it just for the sake of doing it can make the audience feel betrayed.

I think this death was meant to be the catalyst for the team to truly form and live up to it's name. There was someone for them to avenge.
The story sort of demanded it, though pretty standard plot device
in team coming together type stories, reason to hate the villian, etc.

That it was a rather beloved character made it impactful rather then something quickly contrived with some new character we didn't care about or would feel no loss... OH man they killed our pal... Bob! Man Bob was our pal and were mad now.

These characters live a very dangerous life, sacrifice is part of the expectation. Someone is going to get bit sooner or later. So a reminder of that now and then raises the stakes of our emotional investment in what goes on up there on screen.

Now did anyone really think Stark was going to die?
Well, probably not, but it probably helped that someone did earlier
to make us worried.

[DuneMuadDib]

Be hard to kill him when Iron Man 3 already had a release date.

[TheNickFox]

Now did anyone really think Stark was going to die?
Well, probably not, but it probably helped that someone did earlier
to make us worried.

I didn't think so, but we knew that there could have been life support systems/oxygen in the suit (per the earlier underwater scene) so they could have always pulled a "Oh no, we think he's dead, but really he's trapped on the other side of the universe."

Totally unlikely, but that's what I love about comics and comic movies...there's always a way to bring someone back to life or entirely retcon their death with a few lines, if they are needed again.

-Nick

[Knightjar]

Saw it last night with my family and absolutely loved it. I really hope the speculation regarding Coulson's death remains just that. It was a good scene; I particularly liked that his last word was left unspoken for the audience to hear only in their head. Making him a Life Decoy not only cheapens that scene but removes the humour from Stark's earlier throw-away gag.

I was surprised by just how good the 3D was, considering it was added digitally. It was clear that some major thought had gone into the composition of various shots so that the third dimension became an element of cinematography instead of just being a gimmick. It will be interesting to see how cinematography evolves if 3D is here to stay. Incidentally, it's the first time I've actually caught myself blinking when 3D objects are flung out of the screen at me.

Harry Dean Stanton was a great, unexpected bonus! A bit sad how many (my partner included) failed to recognise him.

Favourite moment I hadn't seen mentioned in this thread -
Stark on the bridge, covering one eye and pointing to the monitors on his left: "How does Fury even see these screens?"
Hill: "He turns."

[Too Much Garlic]

Must be cool for the actor to experience this much support for one of his roles. .)

Oh... and yes... I actually thought that they'd kill off Iron Man. With the arc reactor not glowing... the shards would move towards his heart, right. Would have made it a different, more somber movie, but I like the version we got.

[firesprite]

I think this death was meant to be the catalyst for the team to truly form and live up to it's name. There was someone for them to avenge.
The story sort of demanded it, though pretty standard plot device
in team coming together type stories, reason to hate the villian, etc.

That it was a rather beloved character made it impactful rather then something quickly contrived with some new character we didn't care about or would feel no loss... OH man they killed our pal... Bob! Man Bob was our pal and were mad now.

These characters live a very dangerous life, sacrifice is part of the expectation. Someone is going to get bit sooner or later. So a reminder of that now and then raises the stakes of our emotional investment in what goes on up there on screen.

Now did anyone really think Stark was going to die?
Well, probably not, but it probably helped that someone did earlier
to make us worried.

Okay, let me clarify. I'm in the camp that's okay with Coulson dying in the movie. I thought it was a beautifully done, powerful moment that absolutely provided the push that the characters needed to come together to defeat the enemy.

Now, depending on how they go about it, I might be okay with them bringing him back (ie, Wanda bringing him back as she did with Wonder Man in the comics), but it would have to be REALLY well written and fit into the context of the universe.

Now, that said, if it were me in charge and I felt bringing Coulson back was a must, I wouldn't do it until the third Avengers movie. Let the characters have their mourning period and an adventure together in two to solidify their bond as a team. Also, I would use two to introduce Wanda and the enormity of her power. She could even be what the bad guy in two is after, due to her probability manipulation. That way you have a basis for who she is and it'll lend more impact to when she brought him back.

[rodneyfaile]

This all goes back to a thread I started earlier about sequels impacting earlier movies.

Everyone loves Coulson. I want to see him recruit the Wasp for the Avengers, and pop up in Marvel movies for years to come, but I think that would only lessen the impact of his death and everything Stark and Captain America were arguing about.

I don't want to watch the Avengers and know that Coulson isn't really dead. I want it to sting. Spock's death in Wrath of Khan doesn't have the impact it would have had if Spock was never seen again.

[terryr]

Just check and see how long Clark Greggs contract is.

I bet his price would go up now though.

[Laspector]

Maybe Coulson has been an android all along?.. I mean, yeah, they showed blood, but that could always be explained as just some kind of fluid. I'm not saying I would want (or not want) that to happen, but think about it--he was always kind of emotionless and stiff (yet lovable). I was really dissapointed when I saw him killed as I really liked the character. But then as I read this thread and kept seeing the possible allusions to him being The Vision got me to thinking...hhhmmm.

Anyway, I saw it last night. We waited three weeks because I hate super crowded theaters and last night's turnout was just right for me; theater was only about half full, I didn't have to wait in a line, no crowd at the concession stand, got a perfect seat, didn't have to get to the theater an hour early, no screaming kids, and didn't have to stand in a line to pee after it was over

Anyway, I thought it was really great. It seemed to start slow, but that is fine with me--I do not mind build up if it's good, and this WAS good. But I would think you really have to see it at least twice, as there was so much stuff going on so fast, I'm sure I missed a lot.

Great flick!!

[Sundowner]

Aint it Cool has a really good article on Coulson's death

"If Fury was willing to tell a little lie to manipulate his bickering team of superheroes, what makes us think he wouldn’t tell a bigger one?"

[CessnaDriver]

Aint it Cool has a really good article on Coulson's death

"If Fury was willing to tell a little lie to manipulate his bickering team of superheroes, what makes us think he wouldn’t tell a bigger one?"

He tells too big a lie Hulk is going to go all Loki on him.

[jarvis]

A little off topic from the Coulson clone wars, but I was just thinking about Thor's hammer. So is it stuck to things if someone worthy isn't trying to lift it, or is it just like a gravitational pull thing? Like when the hulk tried to lift it on the helli-carrier. what would have happened if he'd torn the whole chunk of metal it was sitting on off? Or when it was sitting on the mud pedestal in the Thor movie, what would have happened if they had dug out from under it? Would it just fall again to the nears part of earth and become stuck again?

[Too Much Garlic]

Some lies are just too big and unforgivable. The lie with the cards and where Fury had found them can be forgiven as a push for action, whereas lying about a death of someone they know is just crossing the line into a situation where none of those people manipulated ever wanting anything to do with Fury or S.H.I.E.L.D again and could likely even consider them an enemy. Fury isn't stupid. Manipulative yes... but with what else is shown about his character, he just wouldn't cross THAT line.

[Too Much Garlic]

A little off topic from the Coulson clone wars, but I was just thinking about Thor's hammer. So is it stuck to things if someone worthy isn't trying to lift it, or is it just like a gravitational pull thing? Like when the hulk tried to lift it on the helli-carrier. what would have happened if he'd torn the whole chunk of metal it was sitting on off? Or when it was sitting on the mud pedestal in the Thor movie, what would have happened if they had dug out from under it? Would it just fall again to the nears part of earth and become stuck again?

It's just heavy. Like Excalibur only being able to be pulled from the stone by a person pure of heart: Arthur.

[EyeofSauron]

Some lies are just too big and unforgivable. The lie with the cards and where Fury had found them can be forgiven as a push for action, whereas lying about a death of someone they know is just crossing the line into a situation where none of those people manipulated ever wanting anything to do with Fury or S.H.I.E.L.D again and could likely even consider them an enemy. Fury isn't stupid. Manipulative yes... but with what else is shown about his character, he just wouldn't cross THAT line.

alltho they do not work together with shield in the comics. and maybe they want to work that in into part 2, the avengers seperating from shield because of that. that would actually be very believable.

It's just heavy. Like Excalibur only being able to be pulled from the stone by a person pure of heart: Arthur.

but if it was just heavy, wouldnt it have pulled down the heli carrier? id put my money on magic

[Too Much Garlic]

alltho they do not work together with shield in the comics. and maybe they want to work that in into part 2, the avengers seperating from shield because of that. that would actually be very believable.

Good point as a tool of separation... but that would make Fury pretty much a real ******* and seriously unlikeable and I really doubt that's true to his character.

but if it was just heavy, wouldnt it have pulled down the heli carrier? id put my money on magic

Heavy in a magical sense to those not worthy. Not because it's sticking to things.

But yeah... didn't make myself completely clear on what I meant.

[Vivek]

After reading the following article couple of weeks ago, I thought they can get Coulson back and still make it work.

Quint has a theory about a certain spoilery plot point in The Avengers he wants to share...

"However, deceiving the group, making them all think a good friend had died in order to manipulate them into doing what he wanted would be a huge blow to their already shaky trust in Nick Fury.

This deception opens up some really fertile, dramatic ground for The Avengers to deal with and, in a way, is even more interesting than the stakes having been raised by Coulson’s death.

That’s why I wouldn’t view it as a cop out if my theory pans out. If it was all set up to explore the impact of distrust within a combat unit when they can’t trust their commander, then I think it could be worth the deception by Whedon and Co. In a way, Fury would have betrayed us, the audience, as well, which makes us immediately empathize with Stark and Rogers, who would be the most furious at the manipulation."

[EyeofSauron]

also, it may be possible that he justifies it with it being the only possibility to get them to work together. Like fury said to loki, that he made him do it (cant remember the exact words)

[jarvis]

They look like a pretty tight knit team to me.

[DocTony]

I had a thought, (and forgive me if its been brought up before) I know someone brought up the two ravens that flew around Loki after he is removed from the quinjet and hits the ground. it was said they were Loki's ravens, I however feel they were Odin's pair of Ravens, the ones he used to spy on Midgard, It would also explain why Thor was able to find Loki, The ravens had been following Loki for Odin.

[EyeofSauron]

it was allways said that it was odins ravens

[Jedi2016]

There were ravens? LOL

[rodneyfaile]

I thought it was Edgar Allen Poe?

[SVTStingRay]

They look like a pretty tight knit team to me.

kill that hulk with fire!

[Scareb]

The way I've always seen it, Nick Fury has always held the safety of the US/Planet/whathaveyou above all else. If the only way to stop an impending invasion and complete distruction of the US is to lie to the only people he knows can stop them, he would do it without hesitation. He's not out to make friends and drinking buddies, he's doing his job. He had no problem firing an RPG at that jet to stop it from dropping a nuke, even if it meant killing his own men.

Mjolnir is kind of tricky. I mean you could say it becomes heavy because Hulk was unable to lift the hammer, but thor used Mjolnir to pin Loki to the Bifrost and it didn't kill him. I mean if it became immensely heavy, in theory it could of killed Loki since Ashardians arent immortal. Also if it was immensely heavy, it would of sunk into the mud instead of bein held up by the mud pile.

I like to think that the hammer is very heavy, and only someone with superhuman strength could wield it. If the hammer is on the ground, then it cannot be moved by anyone period. If the hammer were to say land somewhere with a sharp angle or drop, it would fall due to gravity until it landed on a flat surface.