I never understood the attraction of having a piece of something; unless it is somewhat recognizable, that is. I was offered some pieces of the Orca II (that a couple let rot away on a beach), but I turned the person down... I mean, why would I want some pieces of fibreglass laying 'round?
Cutting up actual costumes to make "collectible" trading cards does happen. It's not material scraps, it's the actual costume. Anybody remember when this was done with a Babe Ruth baseball bat?
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/15/sp...l?pagewanted=1
This practice is done solely for the manufacturer of the cards to make money by selling this garbage to pseudo-collectors who don't know what being a collector is all about.
-chris
Some of us pseudo collectors can't afford anythign beyond a little swatch and value the opportunity to own a piece of our favorie movies no matter how small.
Anyone irritated by my enjoyment of a few swatches is welcome to buy a complete intact piece that I would be happy to display and never cut up.
Obliterating a unique item is no way to show enjoyment or admiration for what it represents. By purchasing these types of items people condone the destruction of artifacts of a bygone era.
Collecting a photo, poster, or a DVD of your favorite films is a way to cherish them without having to completely destroy a piece with historical significance.
This is the RPF. People who can't afford the real thing make their own, right? That preserves the original and gives people something to have and display.
Not everyone can own everything they want, regardless of whether they can afford it or not.
-chris
Some really good points Chris.
Part of me understands the urge to "own a piece" of a film, no matter how small. But I do think that's the sort of thing that can be done w/o destroying a piece of film history. (and I do realize that folks who buy these aren't personally destroying things... I'm really not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, it's just my opinion).
Even for major films, there are smaller stunt and background props and sometimes those can be picked up fairly cheaply. If it means selling a few pieces to have something linked to a film... something whole and recognizable, in my mind, that's worth it.
And of course, there are always replicas as well. Heck, I think when it comes to a swatch of a costume vs. a replica prop/costume, the replica would have more recognizability and way more display impact.
Maybe it's because I'm a collector or just because of what I do for a living, but I cringe whenever I hear of any prop or costume destroyed!
Tom
They make duplicates of everything for films nowadays. I can't see the point of keeping everything. Better that several take pleasure from an item than one keeping it shut up in a box in the attic.
The RPF is for an interest in Replicas, but there is a good chance a lot of us like the real thing too from time to time. I personally have been to the Kent farm from Superman the Movie..and of COURSE I have never broken a single piece because I do respect it too much.
That being said..IF it were torn down I'd love a nice memento.
I didn't purchase the Superman capes I have swatches of, then cut them all up and resell them, but since it was done and it's in my price range I cherish them. IF just watching a DVD were enough to enjoy the prop experience none of us would be members here.
Yes it is a shame to destroy a prop to mass sell it to "pseudo collectors", but the demand is obviously there and a lot of people are proud to have even a small piece of their favorite films. A LOT of props have suffered way worse fates than being share amongs many fans. Isn't one of the Jaws sharks used to sell used cars or something?
Last edited by hankey01; Mar 2, 2010 at 1:37 PM.
It's not my cup of tea.
If the ANH Obi saber is ever found, they could grind it to powder and sell it in glass vials by the gram,right?
Now something that is a one off like that, is very different. If they had made ten resin versions, then cutting up six or seven doesn't seem too crass.Replicant said:
I'm just not sure that having multiples is enough to sway my own POV.
I think they made quite a few ANH Stormtrooper helmets but I think chopping one up would definitely seem "crass" (to say the least!) to a lot of folks.
Or how about an Indiana Jones jacket used in Last Crusade? That's probably a closer match to the scenario. Main character wardrobe, multiple copies. It fits the bill, but I can't imagine seeing one cut up.
To me, it's nicer to think of one collector owning/storing/whatever the piece (WHOLE) than to think of it shredded and, in essence, lost. Sure, some owners are very private (which I can understand is a whole other way to "lose" a piece) but others share pics and info or exhibit pieces. Better the chance than to see it destroyed.
Again, that's just IMO... I'd rather see Jaws whole and selling junk cars than cut up into bits. In a way, more folks get to enjoy Bruce the shark as he's displayed today than would if he were cut up (or even in a private collection, depending on what the owner decided to do with it).
Tom
As a huge Three Stooges fan , I remember seeing the cards they came out with costume and prop pieces in the card. It made me sad. Not only destroying the pieces but with their age and time there isn't much of those items left. They where mostly reused for other productions
I also appreciate that the Superman III swatch I have is back in the town where it was very likely used during filming.
Of course I'd kill to have one of the many whole capes used..but that just isn't going to happen. If anything the remaining ones are more valuable because there is one less...and a LOT of people are able to enjoy a small piece of Hollywood.
To those of us who who collect costumes it is very upsetting to see these items cut up and sold off into tiny pieces. Most of these are, in fact, the real deal and many items from Christie's, PIH, and IAW have ended up as costume cards. I have never bought any, but was tempted by some ST-TOS cards as I could never afford a TOS tunic, but again it is horrifying to think that something so rare was chopped up with a scissors.
I find it unlikely anyone in the last 10 years would chop up a TOS shirt.
I have samples from left over materials of 3rd season shirts, but they were never real costumes.
I don't have any, but personally I think they're cool. It's the only way I could ever have a small piece of costume or warobe used in a film.
I'm not offended as long as they use maybe one costume among several they have...as long as it's not the hero one, or main outfit. One that is damaged would suffice. As someone else said, maybe if it's the stunt double's...I would feel better about it.
But if the costume is important enough, it should be in a museum like the Smithsonian...which is what I'm hoping will happen to the Joker's costume from The Dark Knight.
Things only have the power you give them.
To you, it's a 1" square piece of history, from XYZ film.... to someone else, it's a bit of overpriced rag stuck to a bit of card.
Same with props.
I'd rather have the same model of something, or the entire prop. That at least is recognisible enough to me, if not other people as well.
To each their own, I suppose... But I'd be mighty f**ked off at anyone who destroyed a costume I wanted.
Some of the cards are form actual costumes and it is the entire costume that is cut up. Other like the ones from Xmen are carfully worded to be "material used in the making of" the costimes and not the actual costumes themselves. To realy upset eveyone even more in the latest Stargate set they had Relic cards which contained parts of the Gate.
One example is Rittenhouse, when they cut up a Doctor McCoy maroon jacket they bought from Christies...Trekfan said:
If someone were to cut up a Ferrari and sell you a 1" square of Model A Ford would that be exciting since you can't afford a whole Model A?
Selling swatches of extra fabric is one thing, but to actually cut up costumes is horrible, and I cannot understand why anyone would want a little bit of a costume... you cannot prove what it is, you likely cannot even tell what it came from without the little card it is in... If you can't afford the whole thing then let someone who can buy it and keep it safe, instead of asking companies to butcher stuff and destroy the thing...
BG
But it's not destroying it, apparently. It's actually giving many, many more people the joy of ownership.garver76 said:
Or some such nonsense.
-chris
I had an argument about this with a friend who was in the process of cutting up a screen-used costume piece from a well-known franchise.It was a stunt piece but a very recognisable costume piece and a very iconic costume from a horror character.His excuse was it was a stunt piece.I didnt give a damn it was a stunt costume.I told him in no uncertain terms that I thought he was being a total mercenary and I was really disappointed that he,as a fellow collector of original pieces,was resorting to prop butchery.That's what it boils down to-butchering props for profit.
Never,ever,ever slice up a screen-used costume piece.I hate seeing those swatches.As Chris says it is the destruction of cinematic artifacts.I dont care if someone cant afford to own the actual screen-used costume.I cant afford to own some of these pieces either but I would rather they stayed with someone with more money than I who would look after it than it be destroyed to satisfy my needs.That's an incredibly short-sighted and narrow view in my opinion.
What if you do win the lottery and can suddenly afford everything?
TBH, it's the main reason I play it. Owning a house is a secondary consideration.
Also, as swatches, you'd never see it in a museum. Or on an exhibit tour.
You'd also never get to make accurate replicas.
My friend has a load of SU Aliens stuff - As a result of his continually taking reference photos as requested, we have a very comprehensive knowledge base about these pieces, down to the finest detail. While matey is lucky enough to own the real pieces, many of us now have the joy of owning either perfect replicas and/or copies made from the same parts.
Obviously it's down to the discretion of the prop/costume owner, but many owners are generously appreciative of our shared passions. I'd think the replica market is far more profitable than the swatch one...
How much does a material swatch go for, anyway?
They go from a few $ into the Hundreds depending on the costume and the number made.
From a costume collectors point of view I can fully understand why the costumes should not be cut up but for the card collectors view ponit they only care that it is a part of the card set.
At one of the london shows a couple of years ago they were giving out a square of the wall covering from Enterprise stuck to a piece of paper when you went to the Patrick Stewart talk.
Hard to be ridiculed for enjoying swatches by those who do have screen used items. Easy to say you would rather they were in the hands of collectors if you didn't have any, when you do. The same can be said for private collectors of any screen used items. They should be available for the public to see and on display in a museum or the like.
I didn't demand the items to be cut..heck I wasn't aware of their existence until long after they were sold in stores. That doesn't mean I can't spend a few dollars and have a fraction of the pleasure the more wealthy collectors have.
We are talking about one of many duplicate shirts or whatever...many! I do have a snippet of the felt from the production of the KOTCS hats. I enjoy having it as well. It wasn't part of the screen used hat, but I know the screen used ones were made from the same piece of fabric.
I'm done defending myself for enjoying something that I can afford. If I had money to burn of course I would want a complete piece in tact. I guarantee if I did have a complete piece I would NOT cut it up and sell it. I am not even contributing to the incentive for card retailers to do this since the three I have I purchased on ebay, so that money did not in any way influence card sales. They were second hand.
I kinda understand having what you can afford... I can't own a Harley, so I ride a cheap Japanese copy.
But if something is special enough to me that I want it, even a little bit, I'd rather save the fortune up over the years and eventually buy the whole thing.
Or if a replica is cheaper, I'd go for that.
I kinda figure that cutting something up into bits may benefit me and a whole load of other people (or turn me a reasonable profit if I'm the one doing the cutting)... but in doing so, there could also be one person who's saved up like I have, or taken out a big loan - And I could be depriving them of that one dream prop/costume they always wanted and just worked very hard to get.
Exactly how I see it - the fact is, it shouldn't matter if there was 100 identical costumes used - 99 of them could already be in private collections...and it's somebodies dream to own that last costume one day...cutting it up is just destroying it - it will never again be what it once was. Just little squares and the words to say that it was once part of something great that no longer exists.Ttaskmaster said:
I also think the argument that those of us that own screen used costumes all think this way because we can afford them is complete rubbish.
I wouldn't consider myself a rich man, not by any stretch of the imagination in fact! I've worked very hard and saved and even taken a few chances to obtain the things I have, some of the things in my collection are even there through pure luck or the kindness of others - but all that is irrelevant - even before I started to collect screen used pieces I always thought it was a terrible practice.
As a fan of films - I've always loved to know that there were people out there taking care of those costumes and props that meant so much to me and preserving them for others to enjoy down the line, but that's just my opinion - whatever thats worth
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