Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
  1. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Message Count
    84
    Apr 3, 2012 - UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #1

    I was wondering if anyone knows the law in terms of buying a screen used replica gun? Propstore have loads of nice screen used weapons but their sites states that the Crime Reduction Act prevents them from selling many of the items unless you are a member of NARES (a re-enactment society) or a couple of other possibilities, none of which apply to me. I simply want to put it on the wall but any clarification of the law would be greatly appreciated.
  2. RPF Premium Member kapow7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Birmingham,uk
    Message Count
    491
    Apr 3, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #2

    If it looks like a real gun then you can't buy in uk.

    What gun are you interested on there I wanted to get the Harvey dent from TDK but moved on to blade
  3. Eagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Message Count
    1,655
    Apr 3, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #3

    The acid test is: 'if it appears to be a real firearm at first glance (whether it's a replica of a real or fictional firearm) then you must have a defence under the VCRA to purchase it*. Even someone with a Section 5 firearms licence can't buy a realistic imitation firearm made of resin. Search here or Google for 'VCRA'.

    *Actually, not quite. The seller should check whether you have a defence or not - it is not an offence (if you're over 18) to buy or attempt to buy a RIF without a defence.
  4. RPF Premium Member NuRF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Message Count
    229
    Apr 3, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #4

    It's a difficult area full of complicated definitions. First you have to establish if it's an immitation firearm, or a realistic immitation firearm. Then, is it being imported into the UK or is it already here. The easiest way to look at it is...does it look like a real gun? If yes, then it's REALLY difficult to circumvent the requirements. as an example, I brought a replica Walther P99 on eBay for a James Bond display at home. I COULD buy it because it was BRIGHT BLUE and already in the UK. The problem though with that is if you then re-spray it, you then make it realistic and you commit a seperate offence. If its just to display, you might want to look at airsoft replicas. You can be 'gifted' a realistic one by a member of a club, without having to join.
  5. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Message Count
    120
    Apr 3, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #5

    The strangest part is it is still perfectly legal to buy real deactivated firearms without any sort of licence, including many which would be illegal to own in the US.

    It makes a bit of a mockery of the whole system.
  6. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Message Count
    84
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #6

    Thanks for the info. I didn't have anything in particular in mind but they have loads of great stuff. It is quite interesting as I didn't have a clue so went to the local police station. They didn't know the intricacies of the law so they referred me to the firearms expert for the whole county. I gave him a call and asked him his interpretation of the law and how he enforces it. He said that you can buy any replica as long as it is kept in the home. It becomes an offence when you walk down the street waving it around in the air. I completely understand the logic about how a replica can, in a split second, be mistaken for a real fire-ar but the logic of keeping it in your home and not in a public place also seemed true, especially given that it was from the legal fire-arms expert in the county.
  7. Eagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Message Count
    1,655
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #7

    Cave_Troll said: View Post
    ...so they referred me to the firearms expert for the whole county. He said that you can buy any replica as long as it is kept in the home.
    'Expert'? Clearly, he doesn't know anything. That was terrible advice.
  8. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Message Count
    84
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #8

    Eagle said: View Post
    'Expert'? Clearly, he doesn't know anything. That was terrible advice.
    The thing is he is a serving police officer, specialising in fire-arms. He enforces the law on a daily basis so I'm not sure whose opinion to believe. I asked him if the county had a legal expert and he said that any legal queries would be referred to him. Are there any precedents?
  9. Eagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Message Count
    1,655
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #9

    Cave_Troll said: View Post
    The thing is he is a serving police officer, specialising in fire-arms. He enforces the law on a daily basis so I'm not sure whose opinion to believe. I asked him if the county had a legal expert and he said that any legal queries would be referred to him. Are there any precedents?
    Well, I can categorically state that his advice is [dangerously] wrong. You can't just buy a replica 'as long as you keep it at home'; the law is quite clear in that respect. I've been in and around the VCRA relating to RIFs since 2007 so I'm betting I could run rings around him by the sound of it.

    Re precident, there have been no prosecutions to date but it's only a matter of time!
  10. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Message Count
    84
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #10

    Eagle said: View Post
    Well, I can categorically state that his advice is [dangerously] wrong. You can't just buy a replica 'as long as you keep it at home'; the law is quite clear in that respect. I've been in and around the VCRA relating to RIFs since 2007 so I'm betting I could run rings around him by the sound of it.

    Re precident, there have been no prosecutions to date but it's only a matter of time!
    Thanks again for the info. If I wanted to purchase something from Propstore, such as one of the Blade guns that wasn't even a modified gun but just something created to resemble a gun for the film, what processes would I need to go through?
  11. LDR is offline
    LDR
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    the big wide world
    Message Count
    923
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #11

    If it looks like a real gun then you'd have to be a member of a Re-enactment group.
    Prop store will not sell you replica guns without proof that you are in a group.

    If it doesnt look like a real gun, then prop store will sell it to you no problems.

    I think any guns they can sell (without having to be in a group) will not have the info about being illegal etc. They were selling pulse rifles not so long ago, and those were fine.
  12. Eagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Message Count
    1,655
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #12

    And yet Airsoft shops in the UK require a defence for a Pulse Rifle.... what a dumb law it is.
  13. LDR is offline
    LDR
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    the big wide world
    Message Count
    923
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #13

    yep...mad.

    You can't buy a replica gun that looks like a real gun, but you can buy a real gun that looks like a real gun if its de-activated.

    Must be to do with all those old MPs who collect de-activated guns!
  14. Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Message Count
    124
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #14

    Or perhaps the law was introduced because of kids running around with cheap plastic guns taking up Police time and holding up shops with them.

    I can't see many people with deactivated vickers machine guns taking their £2000 gun out to cause problems.

    I find the membership of NARES strange though, the organisation isn't held very highly in the re-enactment world.
  15. Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Midlands, UK
    Message Count
    86
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #15

    Dax, as you've stated the advice that you have been given , is the officers' interpretation of the law.
    If you want to settle your mind, then my advice would be to contact your local Crown Prosecution Service office in writing, or alternatively, contact the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer QC. At the end of the day, it is the CPS who would be responsible for the prosecution.
    The confusion in this matter is that there is very recent legislation which governs the purchase of these replica prop firearms , and then you have the legislation governing the actual physical possession of the props. Both are separate entities.
    At least if you raise it with the CPS or the DPP, then you will recieve a solid response in WRITING .
    Last edited by lurtz001; Apr 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM.
  16. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Message Count
    84
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #16

    lurtz001 said: View Post
    Dax, as you've stated the advice that you have been given , is the officers' interpretation of the law.
    If you want to settle your mind, then my advice would be to contact your local Crown Prosecution Service office in writing, or alternatively, contact the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer QC. At the end of the day, it is the CPS who would be reasonable for the prosecution.
    The confusion in this matter is that there is very recent legislation which governs the purchase of these replica prop firearms , and then you have the legislation governing the actual physical possession of the props. Both are separate entities.
    At least if you raise it with the CPS or the DPP, then you will recieve a solid response in WRITING .
    Thanks for that. I thought of getting something in writing but didn't think of contacting CPS. Cheers for the advice.
  17. Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Midlands, UK
    Message Count
    86
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #17

    No problem at all. Would you mind letting me know how you get on
  18. Formerly Reverend Scapegoat Scapey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland.
    Message Count
    1,907
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #18

    It's pretty simple.
    If it could be mistaken for a genuine firearm by a reasonable member of the public, then it's illegal to sell it to someone who is not over 18 and a member of a legitimate, insured, Airsoft skirmish site, re-enactment society or theatre/production company.
    It's also illegal to import, or manufacture such an item by either assembling parts, or spraying a 2-tone/clear I.F. in realistic colours.


    VIOLENT CRIME REDUCTION ACT 2006 (COMMENCEMENT No3)
    ORDER 2007 AND (COMMENCEMENT NO 4) ORDER 2007
    THE VIOLENT CRIME REDUCTION ACT 2006 (REALISTIC IMITATION
    FIREARMS) REGULATIONS 2007
    FIREARMS MEASURES
    This Guidance, which has been drawn up in consultation with ACPO’s
    Firearms & Explosives Licensing Working Group and with ACPO Scotland,
    advises of the commencement on 1 October 2007 of the imitation firearms
    provisions in that Act. The relevant commencement orders can be
    downloaded from the following links:
    www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20072180_en.pdf and
    www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20072518_en.pdf.
    The Regulations can be downloaded from the following link:
    www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20072606_en.pdf
    Schedule 2, paragraphs 4 to 6: Realistic imitation firearms
    2. These paragraphs introduce a ban on the supply of realistic imitation
    firearms.
    3. Paragraph 4 makes it an offence to manufacture, import or sell realistic
    imitation firearms. It also makes it an offence to modify an imitation firearm to
    make it realistic. Sub-paragraph 7 provides that imported realistic imitation
    firearms will be liable to forfeiture under customs and excise controls.
    Paragraph 5 provides various defences to the new offence. It makes it a
    defence to show that the manufacture, importation, sale or modification was
    only for the purpose of making the realistic imitation firearm available for:
    - a museum or gallery;
    - theatrical performances and rehearsals of such performances;
    - the production of films and television programmes;
    - the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments; and
    - crown servants.
    4. Sub-paragraph 3 provides a further defence for businesses to import
    realistic imitation firearms for the purpose of modifying them to make them
    non-realistic.
    5. Sub-paragraph 7 provides that “museum or gallery” includes institutions
    which are open to the public and whose purpose includes the preservation,
    display and interpretation of material of historical, artistic or scientific interest.
    Historical re-enactment is defined as “any presentation or other event held for the purpose of re-enacting an event from the past or of illustrating conduct
    from a particular time or period in the past”. This is intended to include a
    range of re-enactment activities, including the display of military vehicles at
    shows and presentations to school children by war veterans.
    6. Paragraph 4(3) gives the Secretary of State a power to provide for further
    exceptions, exemptions or defences. This power has been exercised to make
    the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Realistic Imitation Firearms)
    Regulations 2007, which can be downloaded through the following link
    http:www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007 20072606.htm. The Regulations provide for
    two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft
    skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities” and the
    defence applies only where third party liability insurance is held in respect of
    the activities. The second new defence is for the purpose of display at arms
    fairs, defined in the Regulations by reference to “permitted events”.
    7. The Regulations also specify the persons who can claim the defence for
    historical re-enactment. This is restricted to those organising or taking part in
    re-enactment activities for which third party liability insurance is held.
    8. For manufacturers, importers and vendors to claim one of the defences,
    they must be able to show that their conduct was for purpose of making
    realistic imitation firearms available for one of the reasons specified in the
    defences above. How they should satisfy themselves of this will vary from
    case to case and it might be advisable for them to keep a record of this for
    each transaction. In some cases they could ask to see, for example, a letter
    from the commissioning film or television company. In others, for example an
    importer, they might want to rely on orders from a supplier to the film industry.
    For re-enactments, it would be advisable to ask to see any membership card
    and to check that either the individual or the re-enactment society holds the
    required insurance. For airsoft skirmishing, the Association of British Airsoft is
    putting in place arrangements to allow retailers to check that individual
    purchasers are members of a genuine skirmishing club or site. The key
    elements of these arrangements are:
    • new players must play at least 3 times in the 2 months before being
    offered membership;
    • membership cards with a photograph and recognised format will be
    issued for production to retailers;
    • a central database will be set up for retailers to cross-check a
    purchaser’s details; and
    • a member’s entry on the database will be deleted if unused for 12
    months.
    9. The defence for airsoft skirmishing can apply to individual players because
    their purchase of realistic imitation firearms for this purpose is considered part
    of the “holding” of a skirmishing event. 10. Paragraph 6 defines a “realistic imitation firearm” as an imitation firearm
    which has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable,
    for all practical purposes, from a real firearm. “Imitation firearm” is defined in
    Article 2(2) of the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004 as “any thing which
    has the appearance of being a firearm whether or not it is capable of
    discharging any shot, bullet or other missile”. The term “real firearm” is
    defined in paragraph 6(7) as either a firearm of an actual make or model of a
    modern firearm, or a generic modern firearm. The term “modern firearm” is
    defined in sub-paragraph 8 as a firearm other than one the appearance of
    which would tend to identify it as having a design and mechanism of a sort
    first dating before 1870. The effect of this definition is that realistic imitations
    of pre-1870 firearms are not caught by the new offence. Deactivated firearms
    and antique imitations (such as old dummy rifles used for drill practice) are
    expressly excluded from the definition of realistic imitation firearm and are
    therefore not affected by the new offence either.
    11. Whether an imitation firearm falls within the definition of a realistic
    imitation firearm should be judged from the perspective of how it looks at the
    point of manufacture, import or sale and not how it might be appear if it were
    being misused - for example, in the dark and from a distance. Paragraph 6(2)
    provides that an imitation firearm should not be regarded as distinguishable
    from a real firearm if only an expert can tell the difference or the difference is
    only apparent on close examination or as a result of attempting to load or fire
    it. Paragraph 6(3) provides that in determining whether an imitation firearm is
    realistic, its size, shape and principal colour must be taken into account and it
    is to be regarded as distinguishable if these features are unrealistic for a real
    firearm.
    12. Paragraph 6(4) gives the Secretary of State a power to make regulations
    specifying dimensions and colours that will be regarded as unrealistic. This is
    designed to provide business with a degree of certainty about those imitations
    in which they can trade. The aforementioned Violent Crime Reduction Act
    2006 (Realistic Imitation Firearms) Regulations 2007 specify the following
    dimensions and colours:
    - a height of 38mm and a length of 70mm. An imitation firearm
    with dimensions less than this is to be regarded as unrealistic;
    - transparent;
    - bright red;
    - bright orange;
    - bright yellow;
    - bright green;
    - bright pink; - bright purple; and
    - bright blue.
    13. An imitation firearm the principal colour of which is not one of those listed
    in the Regulations does not automatically fall to be regarded as realistic,
    although it is more likely that that will be the case. In these circumstances, the
    general test of whether it is distinguishable from a real firearm, taking into
    account its size, colour etc, should be applied. It is worth keeping in mind that
    the intention behind this measure is to stop the supply of imitations which look
    so realistic that they are being used by criminals to threaten and intimidate
    their victims.
    14. The definition of realistic imitation firearm given in the VCR Act and the
    colours and dimensions specified in the Regulations relate only to the new
    offence of manufacturing, importing, modifying or selling such items. They are
    not intended to affect in any way the definition of an imitation firearm in
    Article 3(2) of the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004 or how that
    definition is applied elsewhere in the 2004 Order – for example, in firearms
    offences such as those in Articles 58, 59, 60, 61 and 62. The fact that a bright
    pink imitation firearm is not regarded as being realistic under the VCR Act
    provisions would not in itself stop it being regarded as an imitation in the
    commission of one of these offences.
    Schedule 2, paragraph 7: Specification for imitation firearms
    15. This paragraph makes it an offence to manufacture or import an imitation
    firearm which does not conform to specifications to be laid down by the
    Secretary of State. It also makes it an offence to modify an imitation firearm
    so that it does not conform to the specifications or to modify a firearm to
    create an imitation firearm which does not so conform. The intention is to put
    in place manufacturing standards which will prevent imitation firearms being
    converted to fire live ammunition and further guidance will be provided when
    the regulations have been made.
    Schedule 2, paragraph 8: Supplying imitation firearms to minors
    16. This paragraph introduces two new offences. It makes it an offence for
    anyone aged under 18 to purchase an imitation firearm and for anyone to sell
    an imitation firearm to someone aged under 18.
    17. “Imitation firearm” is defined in Article 2(2) of the 2004 Order as “any
    thing which has the appearance of being a firearm, whether or not it is
    capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile”. It will ultimately be for
    the courts to decide whether any item falls within this definition but clearly it
    will apply to the purchase and sale of realistic imitation firearms where this is
    allowed under one of the statutory defences (see Schedule 2, paragraphs 4 to
    6 above). It will also apply to non-realistic imitations which nevertheless have
    “the appearance of being a firearm”. This could include some children’s toys
    although many toys will look so different from a firearm that they might not be regarded as imitations at all (for example, some of the more futuristic looking
    space guns). Where a toy is considered to be an imitation firearm, the
    purchase will have to be made by a parent or other person aged over 18.
    18. There is a defence for anyone charged with the offence of selling an
    imitation firearm to someone under 18, where he can show that he had
    reasonable grounds for believing the purchaser to be 18 or over – for
    example, by seeing credible proof of age.
    Schedule 2, paragraph 9: Increase of maximum sentence for possessing
    an imitation firearm
    19. This paragraph increases to 12 months the maximum custodial sentence
    for an offence under Article 61(1) of the 2004 Order of carrying an imitation
    firearm in public without reasonable excuse. The offence becomes triable
    either way
  19. Formerly Reverend Scapegoat Scapey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland.
    Message Count
    1,907
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #19

    [Dupe post]
  20. Eagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Message Count
    1,655
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #20

    Simples!
  21. RPF Premium Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Medway , Kent
    Message Count
    406
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #21

    Time we had an RPF costume group so we can all buy any guns we want
  22. Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Message Count
    84
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #22

    Scapey said: View Post
    It's pretty simple.
    If it could be mistaken for a genuine firearm by a reasonable member of the public, then it's illegal to sell it to someone who is not over 18 and a member of a legitimate, insured, Airsoft skirmish site, re-enactment society or theatre/production company.
    It's also illegal to import, or manufacture such an item by either assembling parts, or spraying a 2-tone/clear I.F. in realistic colours.
    Thanks for that. My confusion can be highlighted by these items below. I can buy this:

    Lara Crofts (Angelina Jolie) Stunt P11 Gadget Gun

    but not this:

    Blade (Wesley Snipes) Stunt Pistol

    Does one look any more/less realistic than the other?
  23. Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Message Count
    124
    Apr 4, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #23

    I would not sell either to anyone without checking their credentials.
    I am still not sure where the NARES thing comes from though, that is nothing to do with UK law at all.

    NARES tried to corner the UK re-enactment firearms market a few years ago, failed because they are unneccessary and now have a handful of re-enactment groups and one James Bond group as their members.

    Without reading the act I seem to recall that a re-enactment group is defined as such by having insurance.

    But by having the NARES stipulation even if you are in a proper registered and insured group you could not buy the props.

    Strange.
  24. NormanF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North of Orlando FL. If you cross the river you went too far.
    Message Count
    1,039
    Apr 5, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #24

    I love how laws have stupid names that sometimes have no relation to what they actually do. I mean, how "violent" can the crime be if you use a plastic or rubber firearm reproduction?
  25. Eagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Message Count
    1,655
    Apr 5, 2012 - Re: UK Law - buying a replica/screen used gun #25

    Cave_Troll said: View Post
    Thanks for that. My confusion can be highlighted by these items below. I can buy this:

    Lara Crofts (Angelina Jolie) Stunt P11 Gadget Gun

    but not this:

    Blade (Wesley Snipes) Stunt Pistol

    Does one look any more/less realistic than the other?
    You can't buy either without a defence. PropStore have it wrong if they say you can buy the P11 without it.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Buying "Screen Used" Items Off eBay
    Capn_Jack_Savvy, Screen-Used Movie Props and Wardrobe
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 2 Days Ago, 6:07 AM
  2. I've started buying screen used props!
    blufive, Screen-Used Movie Props and Wardrobe
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Oct 14, 2012, 5:29 PM
  3. Buying screen used props/wardrode
    bionicbaconben, Screen-Used Movie Props and Wardrobe
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Sep 16, 2012, 12:21 AM
  4. Buying a Screen Used Item
    Supa troop, Screen-Used Movie Props and Wardrobe
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Jun 27, 2012, 1:00 AM
  5. Replies: 135
    Last Post: Dec 7, 2011, 8:45 AM

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11