Has anyone seen this? (TOS Spock ears)

TheWhiteGrail

This auction house claims that these are TOS Spock ears, when I think it's clear that they're from the movie series, (I think TWOK) They just don't have that TOS look IMO. Surely someone here as copies of the movie series ears for a comparison.

It just seems like someone may have been ripped off via this particular auction, that's a lot of money...

Opinions?

The Star Trek Prop and Costume Auction: Presented by Propworx - Spock's Ears - YouTube

TheWhiteGrail

I actually found a photo of an unused pair of ears from TOS for comparison. They have very different looks.
(All the ears from TOS were different each season I think but they still retained that 'classic' look as they were all molded by Fred Phillips.)

Tales from the ‘Trek’ Trailer : News From Make-Up Artist Magazine

PropworxOliver

If you are speaking of the TOS Spock Ears auctioned by Propworx, they are authentic. Please note from our auction archive and our catalog:
Description

Production-made foam latex appliances painted to match actor's skin tone. Also present on one era is a small strip of adhesive left over from production use. Each ear tip measures approximately 1.5" x 1.5". Comes in slide case measuring 4.75" x 2.25" x 1.25".

Notes

Prosthetic Vulcan ears worn by Leonard Nimoy during production of Star Trek: The Original Series. The actor/director created the role of Commander Spock on the original Star Trek series and has appeared in seven of the feature films, as well as two episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation. These prosthetics were used during filming and were acquired originally by Mr. Drexler from Janna Phillips, daughter of TOS make-up artist Fred Philips. From the collection of Doug Drexler.

Catalog Text

Prosthetic Vulcan ears worn by Leonard Nimoy during production of Star Trek: The Original Series. The actor/director created the role of Commander Spock on the original Star Trek series and has appeared in seven of the feature films, as well as two episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation. These prosthetics were used during filming and were acquired originally by Mr. Drexler from Janna Phillips, daughter of TOS make-up artist Fred Phillips. Also present on one area is a small strip of adhesive left over from production use. Each ear tip measures approximately 1.5" x 1.5". Comes in a slide case measuring 4.75" x 2.25" x 1.25["]. From the collection of Doug Drexler.

If you have particular questions, you can post them here, or email me directly at oliver at propworx dot com or Alec Peters, at alec at propworx dot com.

apollo

They look authentic to me.

I think the reason they look a little off is that they have aged and not well either.

Alec you better start giving those props the "White glove" treatment

PropworxOliver

Apollo,
Handling of the items entrusted to us is one of Propworx' top concerns. This item was consigned to us from Doug Drexler, and had be used in production so much there was normal wear and tear and also degradation of the materials with time. For obvious reasons, we do not undertake restoration of items consigned to us - we leave that open to the buyer to decide how far he or she wants to go. This item even included adhesive from original use - amazing.

I can assure you the Propworx family cares for each and every item as if they were our own - as a team of collectors ourselves, we know how we would want our own items handled and strive to meet or exceed the expectations of our customers and clients.

If you have any direct concerns with items we auction or would like more information, you can contact me directly at oliver at propworx dot com

Cheers,
Shelley

edit to add: ok, now your smilie is winking at me! Sorry - I did not see that at first. My answer was written to reply to someone with doubts on how we handle items - now I think you were just poking! Sorry! I am going to leave my reply up because it is an area we do take very seriously and I hope everyone understands the passion we bring to the business. -Shell

TheWhiteGrail

Thanks for your replies but to me, these ears that were auctioned off look far more like the type used in the latter half of TMP or one of the other movies, than those used in TOS. When I say that, I'm only taking the sculpts of the ears into account and not the ageing process.

To me they look like these ears:

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/phot...2-1405-776.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

   

MoviePropCollector

I am sure as with anything they sell, Propworx would make right anything that was not attributed correctly.

Did you write them about your concerns ?

TheWhiteGrail

Not yet, and I'm really not wanting to point a finger or anything. I'm really just trying to address that the sculpts do not match the props used in TOS. What Propworx wants to do with this info is up to them; if it was me who was buying something like that, I would investigate the prop myself even if it the prop was being sold via offical channels.

TheWhiteGrail

I think I'm pretty conformable in my opinion that these are the ears that were auctioned off for big money. Could still be from TWOK, but these look nearly identical.

Attached Thumbnails

   

The Prop Collector

I think TheWhiteGrail is correct! These are from STTMP After all Fred Philips did both the series and the first movie I believe the daughter got it wrong I have a real pair from STTMP and they to look the very same as the ones picture that are suppose to be from the original series.

brandomack

Well, Steve Neill sculpted Leonard Nimoy's TMP ears. He's also a friend of Doug Drexler's. So I'm pretty sure Steve, if asked can verify whether or not its his work.

Steve, care to chime in on this one?


Brandon

SteveNeill

Here we go again.

Well it went like this.

I was the first to work with Fred. He was a friend and knowing i was a fan brought me in to work on TMP. My first job was to do Nimoy's ears.

He gave me a pair of TOS ears to go by. These ears were originally sculpted by another friend John Chambers. Best known for creating the Planet of the Apes make-ups.

Fred asked me to copy them exactly. I did. and I still have the masters I used to make many copies of the molds for production. We never just used one set of molds.

Later on Charlie Schram was brought in by Fred to run his good foam latex he produced. Somewhere along the line he decided to do my ears over again. They were nothing like the originals and I told him so. He only said that know one would notice or care. Wrong.

At one point in the film you'll see my ears on one side and Charlie's on the other side of Nimoy's head. They had both kinds in a big bag Fred had he pulled out the ears from each day. they were never reused.

Now Doug is a good Friend and I think he could only go by what Janna told him. After 45 years who knows for sure.

The ears on the right of the 2 pictures look close and it could be that over time they shrank distorting them. I believe those are the one's inquestion.

Here's a picture of my ears from the original masters.


Steve



these for sure are my ears.



Here is a recent picture of the masters. Guess I should insure these.



Here are the very first set of ear molds for Nimoy. Fred had me take them home on the weekend to run foam rubber in which is how I got the picture.

Hope this helps,

Steve

SteveNeill

Here are castings I have been offering to fans from the original masters.

SteveNeill

You know the more I look and compare the ears on the right the more I think they are the TOS ears. Doug would be the last person there is in Star Trek to make such an error. Being 45 years old can really change foam rubber.

We use to through them away daily if you can imagine.

I'd like to see a picture of these ears more straight on but I can just make out the twisted up points. Something that every makeup artist got wrong for every single film after TMP.

Steve

TheWhiteGrail

Are you talking about the auction house (second half of TMP) ears here, Steve?

John Cooley

Wow. Glad you saw this thread, it's actually one of the reasons I called, and reminds me that I need to purchase a set from you. Pm me or whatever with what I need to do for a set of ears.

You know seeing all those ears reminds me of a story. Back in the early 70's my Mom, Dad, Aunt and uncle went to the Williamsburg pottery factory. My Mother had managed to get me out of my Donmoor Star Trek shirt, but I wouldn't take off my Spock ears. We walked in and passed a counter with what must have been a couple of girls in their late teens early twenties working there, anyway the girls started laughing at my ears. We walked on, but my uncle went back and said something to the effect of..."Miss. Were you laughing at my nephew? I know there's no way you could know this, but that's really the best the plastic surgeons could do. Thank God, he's not only a sweet kid, but a huge Star Trek fan and he believes that he's just like Spock. That's been a real mercy in his little life. Now I'm going to bring him back over here, and I'd really appreciate it if you'd apologise to him." Now at this point these poor girls are on the verge of tears. But my uncle didn't let them suffer for long. He brought me (I was oblivious to all of this) over to the girls who come from behind the counter and hugged me and offered me treats and affection all while apologizing profusely, as my uncle reaches down and plucks the plastic ears from my head. Confusion from the girls turns into laughter. No hard feelings just relief, and laughing. Good times. My uncle Elmer died a couple of years back but my Mom and Dad, and my Aunt still laugh about my Spock ears and the best the surgeons could do.

John

SteveNeill

You posted two pictures. the ones against white are Charlie's I believe. Or they could be Tom Burmans. But not TOS. The ones against the black BKG look like John's from TOS but a bit distorted with age.

In the video at the auction house it's difficult to tell. Sorry to have confused the matter but I should have stared at them longer. I have been over worked lately with the Big Enterprise project. Need sleep.

Steve

TheWhiteGrail

Ah, yep I see now. Yeah those on the left are definitely the auction house ears, and I would be a lot of money on the left being from TOS. Those ears, I'm sure of.

apollo

Yes I realize you are talking about the sculpts but with Foam latex of this type and of this age you have to take in account the ageing process.

I have seen a few sets of authentic ears in my time and each set looked different as they aged differently.

I would need to see better pics or examine them in person to be sure but they look authentic to me.

hankey01

I may have a picture of Spock ears that Nimoy loaned to the Vulcan Trek station after his appearance there a couple of years ago....I'll have a look.

apollo

Thanks for the info. Steve I never knew you were asked to copy Johnnys sculpts I thought you just did your own close fan obssesed version of it.

You did Johnny proud!

Funny thing the Nimoy ears I got from you fit me almost like a glove, while the ears you did that were reusable don't fit as well.

Regardless for those who don't have them Steves ears are must-haves for any TOS collector

Linnear

First, thank you Steve for chiming in. Much appreciated. Doug Drexler, the consignor of those ears is a very good friend of mine.

TheWhoteGrail, I take great offense when someone has a question and automatically assumes we are "ripping someone off". And yes, that is what you accused us of. Do you even know who we are, and what my personal experience is in Star Trek? Maybe do a little research and ask questions before making accusations.

If there is a misidentification, don't automatically assume someone is trying to rip someone off. WHen I identified that Profiles in History was selling a non-screen used Jem'Hadar ship model as the real thing, I did my research and then posted about it, NEVER accusing Profiles of trying to "rip someone off". Sloppy work? yes. Fraud? No.

And of course, you never bothered to contact me.

Second, the provenance on the ears is IRON CLAD. The daughter of the TOS Make-up artist to Doug Drexler, an art director and make-up supervoisor on Star Trek for 17 years and one of the foremost experts on TOS out there.

There are two ways to ensure a prop is real. Screen matching or provenance. In this case, provenance is proof and as attested to by an authority.

Is there a chance that these are TMP ears that Fred mis-identified as TOS ears? Sure. But we can only go by what he noted.

And as Steve states, screen matching isn't fool proof here due to the age and nature of latex.

Oh and finally, here is my blog. The # 1 blog on Star Trek props & costumes.

The Star Trek Prop, Costume & Auction Blog

Alec Peters
Propworx

apollo

Alec next time I want to see you wearing those Museum white gloves when you are showing off the goods!

TheWhiteGrail

Sure, I shouldn't have typed "ripped off" as that carries some negative connotations, please believe me that none were intended. It's a simple observation on my part, and I'm not intending to 'accuse' anyone. And yes, I have done some research into the origins of these props and you cannot assume that what you 'see' on these boards in all I've done. Although what you can see shows simple comparisons to various props and I agree, visual evidence alone is not enough and there is also some paper pushing and personal correspondence involved (some of which I have done).
All in all it's just an opinion that I have and I'm welcome to it, it is not my intention to flame anyone but to me they look like they're from TMP and not TOS.

To conclude; I believe the props in question are the exact same as these, seen in the three pictures below, sculpted and featured (only) in about the last half of TMP. I firmly believe that they are not from TOS.
Here are some detailed pictures that you can compare and draw your own conclusions from. (If you want to visit the link to see where I got them from, please see half way down the page)

Star Trek Prop, Costume & Auction Authority: Spock Ears

Again, I want to make it very clear that I'm not trying to undermine the integrity of what I believe (propworx) to be a trustworthy and great source for props. I'm truly sorry if it came off that way.

Scott.

Attached Thumbnails

     

apollo

Of course you are welcome to your opinion but with you posting THAT link it is certainly not a very informed one

No offense but you are a little out of your depth here