Wolverine all day baby! Jackets, belts, claws, oh my.

Man, this is what I get for being absent. Thought I'd start this off by saying I leave attitudes at the door, so please don't place any inflections on my wording, as they are just that, words. Everyone has opinions and points of view and a right to voice them.

superDrool said:

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I realize you're backing Vanson quality here, but are also saying Bates has lower quality materials and craftsmanship? Do you know something I don't?

As for pointed shoulder problem, the training of the sleeves is a minor issue as Bowelrock and I have proven. Moreso on Bowelrock's jacket than my own. So it's not as huge of an issue as it seems to be. But I can see how others would want a perfect fit out of the box, and I can't really blame them for that.

I just want to give Heron some credit where it's due. I call it as I see it, and I see great jobs from both Dan/Vanson and Jorge/Heron, here. Vanson is clearly more experienced and has Dan on their side, and having to be able to talk to the actual jacket maker Jorge is a rare treat to be here taking everyone's input and being so positive and receptive to the criticism. Heron is the underdog and I'd like to see them do great things with this jacket among others in their future lines of leather wear. I chose them because of their price to quality ratio as well as their customer service, which cannot be beat in my opinion.

I know...singing their praises, and all this time, I've been doing this because I believe in the what they are capable of. I've seen them overcome probably the hugest obstacle a small...hell, any company for that matter, to become something I can stand behind. I've been to Vanson, and I see what they can do, amazing things...
I respect Dan and am blown away by all the film jackets he has given us oogle and drool over (pun sorta intended). All I'm saying I guess, is that I just wanted to point that this feels like some kind of competition (in a way it is financially and professionally) but at the same time seems lop sided, askewed with too many opinions and bad mouthing each other.

I'll hop of that tiny soapbox, I randomly found...

Drool - not to throw this back at you, but have you actually held a Bates jacket or one of my X2s yet to compare to any other jacket?
I am not knocking Bates or Heron or DavidYR1 or Magnoli or anyone else who has made an X2 jacket. I am ONLY stating I will put my jacket up to the test against anyone else's and be happy to see the outcome in the comparison.
I am not inferring anything, I am simply saying I would gladly throw my version into the ring with anyone at anytime, no matter the price point.
If I didn't take on making an X2, Heron would probably be my go to choice as a consumer myself, as I have my own price ceiling keeping me from buying Bates, and we all have to work within our budgets. My first X2 jacket was actually a DavidYR1 (Universal Designs) creation, although it was not made to my standards so I passed it on. I am a jacket nut first, vendor second, and have plenty of jackets from other vendors to satisfy my jacket cravings and to see how other companies bring things to life. The only times I am able to get those crazy priced jacket is when an incredible deal falls my way.

And as far as Heron goes, I think I have actually been one of their advocates out here when people started thrashing their example jacket...and Tony, if you want to talk about you supporting the underdog little guy, Heron is a company in Mexico with many employees/resources making tons of jackets for quite a few vendors that has also now got into the Wolverine jacket rage due to Origins, and thanks to your input they are doing a good job and are really listening to their customer base for such a small niche. Some of us have been here since the beginning, and I just happened to go with working with the company that made the first Wolverine jacket.

Bowelrock said:

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This doesn't need to be a Pissing match Between Dan and every other jacket maker.. Jesus!!!! Dan you don't even make the Jackets Vanson's does your just a Rep of sorts Correct? They Aren't your Jackets, yes you give them pointers as to make them more accurate to the film, And we appreciate that but it doesn't change the Fact that your just a middleman. No offense I'm just stating facts. Am i wrong?

BUT(and this goes towards answering Bowelrock's statement about me being a middleman) I am one guy, who started as a regular vanson customer spec'ing out my own personal X3 Wolverine jacket, and because I know the details of all these jackets so well more and more folks online asked for help in getting real deal Wolverine jackets available to the public, and then other jackets quickly followed.
I go through every fasset of a jacket's creation, down to the actual patternwork, and have even been seen placing snaps on collars and cuffs of customer jackets on my visits to vanson to make sure they come out exactly correct. BTW my visits to vanson start with an 8 hour drive just to get there...
I had to push for a year just to get Vanson the warm and fuzzy they'd be able to build the X2 for me, to my standards... and then I sat right there with one of their main pattern girls working out the jacket, on top of sending back and forth tons of reference materials and my own measures and strategies for how to get certain pieces built. Even cut out my own leather pull tassles so they could make screen accurate dies to cut the production pieces out.
For the X1, we actually had meetings over the production logistics of getting the left-handed zipper done for customers that wanted them.
Then we can get onto the distressing treatments, that is all handled by me alone and could be a fulltime job in of itself. I hand pick certain leathers for jackets that look totally different from their final form and color, then totally change their properties to get that screen seen look.

I wish I was only a middleman, as my job in this would be tons easier.

I have even handed development info and event jackets directly to other vendors to see if they can come up with something as good or better. I sent Magnoli an X3 so he could complete his Wolverine lineup, and Wested wouldn't even have a somewhat decent Wolverine jacket if it weren't for Mantis and me sending them specs and getting them to make their first X1.

Thank you for being civil, as I know you are a gentleman and a hardworker. I would never take that away from you, Dan. I have so much to thank for you keen eye for detail. Not to mention all the talks that were had over the X2 over at fj.com.
I hold high regards for your time, effort and Vanson's umatched quality, yes I said that( as I have yet to hear ANY complaints about the quality of their craftmanship). I have actually held held a Gen 1 Vanson X1 on the discount rack at factory, but not an X2, nor a Bates. So I can neither confirm nor deny a quick in-hand critique. To truly judge both jackets, though it takes much more than just a personal look and grab, it takes at least a years, if not YEARS to give an accurate critique of one of these jackets. Stitching/seams and wear 'n tear play a part in this.

I'm sure I don't have to spoon feed most of you, as you should already know how to judge quality. My points were to simply cover how you say something and that it can be misconstrude as a cocky claim.
I am actually well aware of Heron making plenty of jackets for others to vend out, they do this in the fall and winter months, but when the spring rolls around they shift focus to us, the custom-order clientele for the spring/summer orders. So yes, they aren't exactly a mom and pops operation, they're a full blown business, but they are still young and have plently of designs and quirks for jacket details that need honing. Which is why they joined here, like Dan said, to listen. Which I respect greatly, and I stand by my actions to help them as they helped me. If it wasn't for Dan, I don't even think the inspiration would've even been there to spend four months on creating one jacket.

-Tony

Agreed... Considering his x3. Not counting out his x2, though still loving my bates.


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Bowelrock said:

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Nice jacket man! But damn that color looks horribly off.

Well, I think that may be a bit of a dramatization? (grin). It photographs dark - especially inside. It's the lighting. It's actually the leather Dan picked to better hit the color. Once temps drop below 90d f I'll get some natural light on it. I haven't been out of shorts most of this summer - and the AC guy tells me I've got a $10,000+ investment in my near future at the rate my compressors are going. They have not turned off for 10 days.

I had a chance at my daughters soccer game a few weeks ago - rain and 60's. I'll see if the wife caught me in any of those pics on her little ELF.

Hers a pic I grabbed of the cuffs. It is a better rep of the color.




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superDrool said:

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That buck tan color isn't the standard color is it? From what I've seen on all his XO's thusfar has been more of the amber tan color and with his plus the distressing of the alcohol rub down.

Hey Tony - good to see you!

I'd defer to Danny-boy on that, but I just asked for the MI9. He said he had something in mind for me and I'm a happy customer. And - playing that same old violin - I'm really needing to get better pics. I've got the right camera and lens - just need the discipline of time.


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