I have no idea if this would work but could the interlocking design be embroidered on to a cloth and then used for a tie? I was thinking of the companies that make patches to any design, maybe get a simple rectangle patch with the pattern on and with a bit of cutting and folding and sticking it could be made into a tie shape. [That is the limit of my practical knowledge - cut fold stick!]
Yeah, it could "easily" be done. I think that's what Thorneboy did, with the spoonflower fabric. Although the problem is finding a company that'll be doing the embroidering on the fabric.
This is literally the first site I found so not a recommendation just an example of what I mean
Embroidery :: embroidered patches :: Custom patches by Your own idea
It says any design on any material so maybe it would work.
If we're talking about the "I" tie (Aztec tie) then there is really no point in going after it since Magnoli has this in the works. I think I'm more interested in seeing if we can come up with an accurate S6 burgundy tie.
Well, the Clappers one i linked to earlier seems to be pretty excact.
The Clappers one is a great find, but it looks more like a 2.5" width rather than a 2" which looks more accurate to the good Doctor's ties. The material looks like a vertical twill or grosgrain so if you used the cummerbund and cut it on the bias, you could make a pretty nice Impossible Astronaut pile-of-clothes bow tie.
I think what we're most excited about trying to find is the less structured basket-weave burgundy bow tie seen in A Christmas Carol onwards.
I was just thinking about something, actually, wouldn't it be possible to dye a Marcellan bow-tie? Like this: 0248 Double Ended Marcella Bow Tie White : Welcome to Pakeman Catto & Carter, for example, maybe not that EXCACT bow-tie, but the general type, and dye it burgundy?
Yes that would work just fine.HaroldVonBraun said:
The weave on that is a lot better than what we've seen so far for a S6 tie. I think what we're really looking for is a basket weave or "pinpoint" silk tie. Doesn't have to be the correct color so long as we can dye it the right color. White is perfect for this.
This one you linked to may be worth a look-see in person - who want's to step up and try it out?
I might take this on....GeneralFROSTY said:
Here are a few different versions then, i'm not myself sure about which one would be best though;
Self-tie Butterfly: WHITE MARCELLA SELF-TIE Bowtie - Neckwear Tailored Bowties (Self-tie) Buy UK
Pre-tied Bow tie: Marcella Bow Tie - £15.95 : Birtchnells Menswear
Self-Tie Bat Wing:White Bow Tie - Bat Wing - Self Tie - Marcella Cotton : Top Hats, Toppers, Bowler Hats, Boaters and lots more
And then two slightly "rounder" butterfly bow-ties: Moss Bros White Self-Tie Marcella Bow Tie from Moss Bros 0248 Double Ended Marcella Bow Tie White : Welcome to Pakeman Catto & Carter
EDIT: I think the top one would be pretty good for the slightly more loose, self-tie version of the Bow-tie, seen in some of the promotional photos, and quite a few series 7 images, http://static.zooomr.com/images/10135029_dfa2034a4e.jpg
It'a also seen in "A Christmas Carol" http://doctorwho.sonicbiro.co.uk/gal..._Carol_528.jpg
Last edited by HaroldVonBraun; Mar 30, 2012 at 5:05 PM.
I'll add some of these points to the breakdowns - The one main piece on my Series 5 costume I want to tweak/upgrade aside from my ever-imending Donegal jacket commissions is the bow tie. I like the one I have now for color and size but it doesn't quite have the shape right.
Will be checking back in on progress!
It's got to have the right shape - fabric-wise, all of those options look to be a good close enough for dying, but the overall size and shape would have to look right when its tied.
If anyone picks one of these up and does some dye tests, please post pics and let us know what you think.
Well if someone is making one then thats good news because it doesn't really work as a flat print IMO.GeneralFROSTY said:
About the burgundy tie, the standard Series 6 tie if it can be called that is actually not the self tie one but the smaller pre tied one. The bigger self tie one is only worn in two episodes of S6 [plus A Christmas Carol]. Oh and it makes a quick cameo appearance on the pile of clothes right at the start of the series as well.
Interesting discovery! Would love to see some close up pics of the two ties to see the difference.
Here you go.
Christmas carol bow-tie, damn the darkness of doctor who episodes.
Here's the other one.
Last edited by HaroldVonBraun; Apr 6, 2012 at 7:08 AM.
There are three red ties in Series 6. To really nail down the differences you have to take a close look over a LOT of images because as Harold points out image quality is not always what we would hope for in the episodes. These are just a few shots to give an idea of what I'm on about. And it also helps to think in production order rather than the more usual order of episodes we are used to.
Red1
Top image in this montage is from the early Series 6 publicity photos so I guess was taken a little after A Christmas Carol was made, it looks to be the same tie from that episode. Certainly these publicity photos were taken before filming on Series 6 started because the jacket hasn't had the elbow patches put on yet.
The first episode of Series 6 to be filmed was Night Terrors, middle row shows two shots of the tie in that episode. Next episode made was The Doctor's Wife, bottom left shot is that tie. Important thing to notice on these photos is that the detail of the tie varies from episode to episode because it is self-tie so the knot and folds are different each time it is tied. Bottom right shot shows it untied in a brief appearance in the next episode made,The Impossible Astronaut.
After the Night Terrors / Doctor's Wife recording block used Red1, the next two blocks [Impossible Astronaut / Day of the Moon and Rebel Flesh / Almost People] used the blue ties. Then a new tie is introduced.
Red2
The next block was A Good Man Goes to War and Curse of the Black Spot and both use the same new red tie, a pre-tied kind. It can be seen it is pre-tied because it always looks the same between the two episodes [top image is Curse]. Very similar to Red1 but it seems maybe a touch smaller and the detail in the pattern is a little different. The Red1 pattern seems to run more vertical while Red2 has a horizontal position. These shots from A Good Man Goes to War show the horizontal direction.
Red2 only appears in A Good Man Goes to War and Curse of the Black Spot. I guess that after spending a lot of time on Curse soaking wet the tie didn't recover too well and was ditched. Next episode made was The God Complex with a blue tie and then the replacement for Red2 arrives.
Red3
The new red tie is pretty much exactly the same as Red2. But because it is also pre-tied it has a unique shape to the knot and folds and can be matched from episode to episode. The Girl Who Waited and Closing Time were made next and both use Red3. Then it was Let's Kill Hitler which uses a blue early in the episode, then switches to white, then switches to red and it is Red3. Wedding of River Song next, with Red3 again and also the blue ties. After Series 6 The Doctor The Widow and The Wardrobe also used Red3.
The episodes being shown in a different order jumbles all the ties up but looking at it in production order there is a logical flow, Red1 is replaced by Red2 and that is replaced by Red3. So in Series 6 the red self-tie only appears in The Doctor's Wife and Night Terrors. The two pre-tied reds appear in Curse of the Black Spot, A Good Man Goes to War, Let's Kill Hitler, The Girl Who Waited, Closing Time and Wedding of River Song [plus The Doctor the Widow and the Wardrobe].
Excellent sleuthing Columbo, appreciate all this info! Now to find that material...
Grat work Columbo. The only thing I would say is to call the second and third ties pre-tied is probably not entirely accurate. If I recall the AbbyShot tie allows you to tie it yourself and then also undo it with a clip. These ties are probably constructed in the same manner so that they give the look of a self-ties tied (slight sloppy and floppy) but still able to be unhooked so as not to screw up continuity. This method also makes them quite easy to construct.
Also the 3rd and 1st ties have the same pinpoint/basketweave-ish type weave and seem to be very very similar. Not the 3rd and 2nd. Red2 is more of a twill. The direction of the weave and lines through the fabric is what is causing me to say this.
modernboy said:
I would say that Red1 is made like you describe the Abbyshot. It can be tied and then unhooked at the back. If you look on the shot of the clothes from The Impossible Astronaut the hook is visible near the top centre.
I'm pretty sure that Red2 and 3 are not like that. At least, if they started out that way the knots were stitched into a set form before filming and never untied again. Those knots do not change one little bit. The position of the side pieces also does not change at all, the back piece never varies in its relation to the front one. For example, in the bottom photo there is a very noticeable wave in the back piece [near to the right edge of the photo]. This never changes through five episodes. Red2 and 3 have no flop in them at all.
The direction of the weave in photos can be extremely deceptive, the same tie can look completely different. If you focus on the most prominent stitch of Red1, the stitches that catch the light most, they are more tall than wide. The difference can be seen by looking at the knot because the cloth is twisted round and the stitches are no longer upright.
The main stitching on Red2 and 3 lies horizontally. Not easy to see in the photos I used above but I'm sure they are a match. The Red1 cloth also looks more shiny, a bit more silky. Again an average has to be taken over many photos because of changes in the lighting and angles being so deceptive.
Ironic thing is I wouldn't be seen dead in a bow tie!
Columbo, you are a beast! That info was incredibly well thought out - thank you for sharing!
We really need a proper replica of this tie - I really like Red3
Very thorough Columbo (your namesake is done proud). I'd like to update the S6 breakdown with this info as well to show the (rather subtle) differences between these ties.
Columbe beat my post, by a SLIGHT margin...
Well I'm all for spreading this information around to anyone who wants to know. Another thing I noticed is in the Children in Need special where the Doctor donates his clothes. He wears Red3 all through the episode but the close up of the tie thrown over the top of the screen looks to be the return of Red1 after a whole year out of use!
I expected the shots of the Doctor wearing his "hologram" clothes would just be Matt on the right spliced together with a shot of the same clothes hanging on the left. He actually has changed costume though and is wearing a different jacket and jeans from what he starts out in [but the same tie]. Easier to do a quick costume change than even a few simple split screen shots I guess because after all it was shot only the day before transmission.
Oh one more thing..... did I mention that the Doctor's boots in Series 6 are actually two slightly different pairs?
That bow-tie looks more like the Tie 2 to me, but i guess you studied the red bow-ties a bit more than me. And also, with the two different boots, is it though all the series? Because otherwise he might just have accidently mixed a hero boot with a stunt double boot, in the rush of getting dressed.
Yeah I thought at first it was Red2 as well. Just can't seem to match up the shapes though. If Red2 did survive the soaking on Curse the shape could have been a bit changed but would it be so different? The weave pattern matches Red1 too so it looks more like being that one. Or a new one of exactly the same type. Series 7 started filming only a couple of months later and the first publicity shot released shows the self tie kind is back in use.HaroldVonBraun said:
It's so rare to see the boots in any detail that I don't think it can be said exactly which ones are in every episode but publicity photos show Matt wearing two slightly different pairs. One pair has a double row of stitching where the others have only one.
This shows where to look for the difference
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