X-wing primered. What next?

Colin Droidmilk

Got my primer on. But I now want to shoot as few coats as humanly possible. I've seen a lot of folks put a coat of black on next, as ILM did (did ILM do that to make the model impermeable to the studio lights and its own interior lights or what?). I don't want to that. My instinct is to shoot a grey undercoat, then a final coat of off-white. But I'm wondering, do I even need to do the grey coat? I shot my cockpit interior final coat straight on to the primer and it looks fine. Can I get away with shooting my off-white straight onto the primer too? Or is this crazy talk?

jedimaster

As soon as my Pyro's arrive I plan on just grey primer and then the top coat and nothing else. I've toyed with the idea of a mix of aircraft light grey and reefer white. But that's not set In concrete as yet.

ralphee

Id go with a single clean coat of grey primer, then the top coat. The black undercoating IMO, is pretty pointless, used it twice, and cant see its purpose, in the shelf display area at least.
Just curious, you say you have it primed already though, what did you use, white?

lee

MonsieurTox

I dont know if they usedblack or dark gray but I'm pretty sure it was the primer and not another coat after the primer being applyied.
I think it depends of which X-Wing you're building, some need really this coat as the black/dark gray goes through the base coat (because of heavy sanding).
Anyway it's up to you to paint it the way you think it's better for your taste or/and to match the original.

Nwerke

Julien beat me to it. You really see the black on a few models. Check your ref!

Colin Droidmilk

Right, I'll check, but I want to keep the coat numbers down in order to preserve the detail, especially the panel lines, which are not scored as deep as ILM, and I'm loth to re-scribe 'em...

Colin Droidmilk

No, it's grey. That's why I couldn't see the point of shooting a grey enamel coat on that before shooting the topcoat (I mistakenly thought you had to have an enamel base coat on top of the resin primer before you could go to topcoat) So, you and Jedimaster would basically proceed as I intend, then. Grey resin primer, then topcoat. Which means I'm ready for topcoat. Ace. Just got to get my bloody airbrush working again, now...

Thanks all for the help.

Btw, has anyone ever bothered with the old Famous Spaceships white undercoat and liquid frisket scratch-away technique? I only hear about this black primer deal these days...

ralphee

Liquid masks can be ace, the effects possible are awesome, with so many techniques on its application.
Never been a fan of scratching paint away though, but in many cases, its unavoidable to get the right effect.
Id love to get Guys take on it all, hes about the most prolific artist in this area IMO.
Looking forward to seeing this now, its been agonising waiting for the first painted pyro.

Lee

Guy Cowen

Thanks Lee, now stop drinking & get back to work :-)

All I ever do when I paint anything is think 4 layers ahead, how do I want the weathering to look is the first place to start for me, then work the plan backwards. Its mostly impossible to tell the exact methods on the originals, although copying what you see can be planned to a good extent. Study all the scratches and chips on the original & try to see what layers you can. Liquid masking "is" awesome but you have to use it sparingly, a lot of the ILM weathering that I've copied in the past is the opposite of masking, its just simply hand painted on quite scruffily. The B wing is a classic example, I spent hours & hours placing the latex masking but all the time I new it was wrong, I new I could get great results with masking but didn't trust my hand painted work at the time. If I did the same B wing again I would use 99% less masking. Same with the Sand crawler. I decided against masking cos it just wasn't used o the original model but I new I could replicate the dodgy quick paint work that ILM did, If you used Liquid masking on the the Sand crawler it would look much more realistic to real life but too far from the ILM model. The REd 3 I painted was the hardest, mainly as I spent an age painting it then just beet the sh)* out of it, to make it look like the battered Red 3 that exists now.

There's no hard or fast way to do anything but I would recommend to focus on the way your prefer to paint, if its masking then go for it if its any other method then go for it, also build a cheap model kit & primer, base coat it the same as the X wing and anything your not sure of practise on the cheap model.

I nearly always use a black undercoat, nearly all the ILM models I've painted have scratches that cut through to a black colour, be it primer or other its usually there.
Scan through all the weathering and look what you need it be underneath, could be white & black or even yellow/Orange if its vintage resin. The scaring on ILM models is the trick to getting then looking vintage & real.

Colin Droidmilk

Thanks, Guy!

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Which model are you recreating?

moffeaton

They also apparently misted the entire model with a solvent, which made some of the paint move organically - and THAT is impossible to replicate with the same technique. But I have a plan with some other materials to recreate it...

GKvfx

If you go here: YouTube - Visual Effects Artist Grant McCune interviewed for Japanese SFX Museum with John Dykstra - about 9min in, Grant demonstrates the technique.

The key to it is making sure the top layer of paint (and its solvent) is compatible with the basecoat. Use lacquer thinner on top of enamels, for instance, and you'll get your basecoat running. Use enamels or acyrlics on top of cured lacquers and you should be fine......

Gene

moffeaton

Liquor before beer? Beer before... uh-oh.

Scott Graham

Good catch on finding that technique in the video. Funny how that just looks like a runny wash mistake, but it's turned into a way to make drips and runs.

mslz22

What an awesome video....let me just whip up this space shuttle out of some foam i found in the backyard!! What an artist...

GKvfx

And actually, I should point out that priming a model in black was fairly common. Dave Jones explained to me that, under the hot (bright) lights, the black base actually helped on some sort of UV level to make the paint appear more saturated (or something to that effect). They tested it with and without the primer and did notice a difference. Of course, this all has to do with making a model look on film. Since lighting has changed a lot since the 70's, and most of us are either displaying the model on a bookshelf or taking a digital photo of it, I doubt those little tricks are as mandatory as they once were. I'll try to get clarification on it later..........

Gene

jedimaster

Great Vid thanks for posting Gene. I like how Grant said "in the old day's we made them from wood". Now they are just made from 1's and 0's.

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That is an amazing video. Thanks Gene.

And guys, let's not forget that it was the same McCune who was interviewed for the June 1979 publishing of Famous Spaceships of Fact and Fantasy and who told us that the hero X-Wing models were painted in a white automotive enamel (yes, over the black primer), that liquid frisket was used between layers and removed to create wear, that enamel Floquil Railroad colors were used on top of the white, that "grease and grime colors were dipped into thinner and flowed across the model with a brush," and that "steel wool was used to create further weathering and rub down area that needed to be redone."

Now, I'm hesitant to restate any of this history because any discussion of the original finish of these models has inspired no small amount of human drama here over the years. I only post this to point out that when someone comes along and tells you he knows more today about how these miniatures were finished than Chief Modelmaker Grant McCune knew in 1978-1979, well, you need to weigh that kind of counterpoint and its source very, very carefully indeed, IMHO.

Guy Cowen

For some reason, I had a drum roll going in my head when I read this
God forbid someone may have been there & told the story accurately. Even though we know, We'll never know...no wait....we know right! Who knows? Oh, we do

Then again I'm not sure we should believe this kinda misleading nonsense, I mean c'mon, what reason would he have for telling the truth in an interview.

ITs the studio scale version of LOST or THE EVENT, so many twists and turns its a "mockery of a travesty of a sham"

Well I cant wait to paint something again really soon as the vid did nothing but inspire me

ralphee

Accuracy issues of my own tardiness aside then Kevin, i guess my Red Leader was kinda painted the correct route then lol.
I have to say it, it was more fun going black, latex, then gloss white and loopy with the steel wool, a real rough it in blast if a paint up.

Lee

Guy Cowen

Mate, your Red leader was the main thing that got me into all this in the first place. Still an awesome paint job & a shame its not still with you.

ralphee

Ah, Guy im never happy, i love to pick apart my own work lol.
Do like Kevins post though. These models do bring out so many different opinions and viewpoints, that we as builders wont ever tire of.

Lee

Guy Cowen

That was sarcasm in my earlier post just incase it didn't come across. I'm all for the black then white then colour to taste approach, I would love to Read the interview with McCune, you cant beat knowledge & inspiration.

ralphee

Guy, i know buddy lol. Heres a thought, im yet to bag some here in th UK, so im yet to see the tone, but has anybody looked into Tamiya AS20 as a basecoat?

Lee