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  1. Chara limit is way too sm RPF Premium Member Nwerke's Avatar
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    Nov 22, 2010, 1:48 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #26

    Yeah, it'd be cool as hell. Do the slats in gloss, the rest in matte, with a few dark greys maybe. If we have a prototype to go from I'd be in! More so for the maroon one though.

    BTW, on the 'lighting equipment' paint idea - the panels at the 8 and 10 o'clock positions are a lighter shade of a very similar colour, so that might argue against it. Looks to me like a "proper" paint scheme.

    Gene, thanks for this amazing bit of research!
  2. RPF Premium Member
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    Nov 22, 2010, 2:27 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #27

    Nwerke said: View Post
    Gawd, how purely EVIL would an all-black TIE look? Pretty derned evil, son...if you could see it at all....
    Well - nope. Quite the contrary.

    The Imperial sentry ships (= TIEs) were planned for the prison complex shots (where the princess had been kept at that stage of a still rather rough story draft; no Death Star at that point yet). And since the prison floats in grayish clouds (sounds familiar? Indeed - that is Cloud City, the same design concept revisited for TESB), a gray fighter would be pretty stealthy, huh?

    Hence the remark in the concept drawings it should be black. Or maroon...

    When they altered the script and dropped the idea of the city / prison in the clouds and increased the screen time of the space battle station, there was the need to change the small ships' colors obviously.

    Cheers,
    Falk

    Last edited by Falk; Nov 22, 2010 at 2:40 AM. Reason: Pictures added
  3. Chara limit is way too sm RPF Premium Member Nwerke's Avatar
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    Nov 22, 2010, 2:52 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #28

    Oh, of course. We're talking the Cloud City stage of the script. Good catch, Falk!
  4. cayman shen's Avatar
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    Nov 22, 2010, 8:15 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #29

    I just find it hard to believe that after decades of obsessing over Star Wars, there's still stuff to learn. Maroon TIEs...nifty!
  5. PHArchivist's Avatar
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    Nov 22, 2010, 9:27 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #30

    Weird... So was the Death Star originally red...!?
  6. ralphee is offline ralphee
    Nov 22, 2010, 9:29 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #31

    "you've got red on you"

    lee
  7. Spoddy's Avatar
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    Nov 23, 2010, 6:12 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #32

    PHArchivist said: View Post
    Weird... So was the Death Star originally red...!?
    Depended if Vader made his decision on his off-weekends, or not..



    Guess he didn't...
  8. RPF Premium Member
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    Nov 23, 2010, 10:36 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #33

    What has been seen cannot be unseen.

    Save us with more photos Gene.
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    Nov 24, 2010, 5:53 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #34

    Amazing,Gene....
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    Nov 24, 2010, 5:58 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #35

    Nighteyes said: View Post
    What has been seen cannot be unseen.

    Save us with more photos Gene.
    Yeah, I gotta agree with you. I find that image ....... disturbing.

    OK, a few more assorted TIE clips -

    I found a clip that was scribed "TIE LED TEST" (or something similar) and just showed various exposures of the back end of the TIE (just the engines). There had been some debate as to what type of light was used for the TIE engines - an incandescent bulb or an LED. Well, it looks like it was a set of LEDs:

    LEDs will work, they just didn't put out a lot of light. That means you have to increase the exposure time and though you can get them to work, it will take more time. What's interesting to me is the fact that the bluescreen is switched on. For a light pass, they were just generally burned in and (usually) just shot against black. It might be a pass that will help the matte as well as a light pass. But the pylon should be on in that case. Weird.

    I don't really know what they were testing in this one. Just seems to be an exposure test:

    Quick VFX 101 lesson. You don't have to fill the entire frame with a bluescreen to shoot a model. So long as the TIE ship stays within that little blue box during the course of the camera move, the rest of the frame can be garbage matted out once the matte around the edge has been pulled. And if any of you remember getting the VHS of Star Wars or Empire when it first came out in the 80's, you'll likely remember the boxes around the ships that changed shape as the model moved. These were the garbage mattes. The enhanced contrast of video made the slight exposure difference more visible. Someone will likely be chastised for allowing the shadow of the TIE to fall on the bluescreen. That's a no-no.

    This frame was from a front projection test. It was shot on 6/15/76. The screen is 7'4" wide. The camera box is 11' from the screen. The model is 2' from the screen. (All according to the scribing on the film):

    Though they had considered using front projection for the ship shots very early on (ala "Silent Running"), the crazy camera moves they would be doing pushed them in the direction of bluescreen photography. I'm just not sure the exact date they made that decision (I suspect it was before this test was shot.)

    One thing that ILM failed at was the fact that they didn't have process plates ready for the stage photography of the actors in the cockpits. (And thus, had to shoot them against bluescreen). This could be a test for that process. based on the date, it's towards the middle-end of the first unit stage photography.

    Enjoy.

    Gene

    PS - The green halo'ing around the really bright areas is an artifact of the scanner that I'm using and it can't entirely be gotten rid of. Least, not that I've been able to ascertain.
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  11. Eagle-1's Avatar
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    Nov 24, 2010, 6:16 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #36

    Thank you Mr. Gene!

    Rob.
  12. MonsieurTox's Avatar
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    Nov 24, 2010, 7:48 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #37

    Still a lot to learn... I'm glad this kind of stuff can show up after all those years, thanks for sharing Gene !!
  13. qcfoundry's Avatar
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    Nov 30, 2010, 6:50 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #38

    The Official Star Wars Blog

    congrats on the recognition
  14. Colin Droidmilk's Avatar
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    Dec 1, 2010, 10:37 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #39

    As ever, fantastic, Gene, thanks!
  15. blownhemi's Avatar
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    Dec 1, 2010, 4:44 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #40

    Linked on Gizmodo, too! Though they called us the Replica Blog Forum.

    The Original TIE Fighters Were Purple
  16. RPF Premium Member jawsmodels's Avatar
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    Dec 2, 2010, 3:21 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #41

    Awsome pics Gene. Thanks for sharing them.
  17. gizmo's Avatar
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    Dec 2, 2010, 11:06 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #42

    Thanks for the pics man.
  18. Member Since
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    Dec 3, 2010, 7:15 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #43

    Well, it looks like we have an audience. Who would have thought that a half maroon TIE fighter would go viral? Yeah, it's out there in multiple places. Gotta love the George-bashing comments (not)! Look, when you're trying to figure out how to do what seemingly is impossible, you try some wild ideas and see where they lead. I'll try to get some additional info about the "what the hell were they thinking" aspect of this and get back to you. Meanwhile:

    Nighteyes said: View Post
    ... looks like they've got some yellow panels on the ball there near the window.............
    Good catch. Didn't notice it. Some of the wedges are damaged/smudged and that affects the color. But I looked at the two-toned TIE wedge again and scanned a different strip. Yep, there is definitely some form of paneling going on there -


    Full res, cropped -


    A different frame -


    So it's definitely on the model, not the film.

    As an aside, these wedges were shot on a filmstock called 5247. While the original camera negative holds up well if treated properly, the corresponding workprint stock does not. It fades rather quickly (within about a year) with the cyan portion of the record going first. This is what the frame above looked like before any color correction -


    Talk about purple. Sheesh. Thankfully, the scanner can correct most of that. Yeah, you're relying on an algorithm to correct the color and it may not be perfect. But relatively speaking, it looks good to the eye.

    Anyways, after the workprint comes back from the lab, the strips get cut up and taped to a sheet of acetate -


    When viewed on a light table, you can see the exposure changes at a glance because you can see multiple frames at once. Like I said before, information is usually scribed on the film as a reminder of how the wedge was shot.

    All of these seem to be exposure wedges as they (or portions like the engines) just seem to be getting lighter or darker.

    That's wedging 101.

    Gene
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  19. Six Demon Baggage RPF Premium Member moffeaton's Avatar
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    Dec 3, 2010, 8:17 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #44

    God, I want to see EVERY SCRAP of film exposed for this film, model-wise. It ALWAYS sends chills up my spine, and I'm a grown man.
  20. MonsieurTox's Avatar
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    Dec 3, 2010, 8:22 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #45

    Gene, you should write a book.
    Once again, thanks !
  21. RPF Premium Member
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    Dec 4, 2010, 2:02 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #46

    Gone viral lol. Starwars.com has got to rely on you Gene
    to tell them the history of their own stuff.

    It's those yellowish panels that give it a thoughtful finished look. I hope someone gets around to building one like that. Personally I don't think the maroon is that objectionable.

    Thanks for keeping the images coming. I've got all the essentials; Chronicles, Star Wars to Indy, Sculpting A Galaxy. But as it turns out I wind up here reading instead.

    So what else you got?

    Chilly spine. Check.
  22. Chara limit is way too sm RPF Premium Member Nwerke's Avatar
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    Dec 5, 2010, 2:26 AM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #47

    I am LOVING this. Thanks Gene. I will get around to building one like that, Paul - I honestly do like it!
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    Dec 5, 2010, 4:44 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #48

    Nighteyes said: View Post
    Gone viral lol. Starwars.com has got to rely on you Gene
    to tell them the history of their own stuff......So what else you got?.....
    It's been suggested that I release all of the images en masse and call it 'WookieLeaks'.

    I wish there were more sexy stuff in there, but the majority of the stuff was mundane - mostly focus charts and lens grids. But I guess this proves that you still can find little gems here and there.....

    Gene
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    Dec 5, 2010, 7:14 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #49

    Cool information
  25. RPF Premium Member jedimaster's Avatar
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    Dec 5, 2010, 7:25 PM - Re: TIE fighter's original color - Not what you think..... #50

    Go with the wookieleaks idea man this is cool.

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