Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Subscribe
  1. STEVE THE SWEDE's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2001
    From
    Froson , SWEDEN
    Messages
    3,342
    Jul 17, 2005, 10:23 AM - #51

    Lee, do you mind if I ask what you're using to weather your X-wings? When I painted and weathered MR's AT-AT for a friend of mine I used nothing else but black enamel paint deluted in "white spirit". It worked quite well and by the looks of the original AT-AT's it seemed to me that it was the medium used on the real ones too.

    I really like the way you have weathered your X-wings, they look VERY true to the originals. Do you use the same thing? Deluted enamels and airbrush scoaring?

    If you want to share your secret I'm all ear.

    Steve.
  2. Rogue Studios is offline Rogue Studios
    Jul 17, 2005, 1:36 PM - #52

    Originally posted by STEVE THE SWEDE@Jul 17 2005, 10:23 AM
    Lee, do you mind if I ask what you're using to weather your X-wings? When I painted and weathered MR's AT-AT for a friend of mine I used nothing else but black enamel paint deluted in "white spirit". It worked quite well and by the looks of the original AT-AT's it seemed to me that it was the medium used on the real ones too.

    I really like the way you have weathered your X-wings, they look VERY true to the originals. Do you use the same thing? Deluted enamels and airbrush scoaring?

    If you want to share your secret I'm all ear.

    Steve.
    [snapback]1035210[/snapback]
    Hey Steve, I admire your work you do good work, your AT-AT work is extremely impressive. I can findout what they used on the originals(AT-AT's) if Pat can still remember or even knows. On the X-wing I usually mix up a diluted solution of various colors and that typically entails the use of acrylics. I use mostly colors like 'weathered black' as well as a brown mixture which is mostly diluted with window cleaner. It takes me more time to weather the model than any other part in the process.

    Lee
  3. STEVE THE SWEDE's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2001
    From
    Froson , SWEDEN
    Messages
    3,342
    Jul 17, 2005, 7:46 PM - #53

    Lee, thanks for the kind words.

    It would be fantastic if you asked him what they used on the AT-AT's. To me it just looked like they applied some heavy wash and then streaked it down the side of the hull with a rag. Besides from some airbrushed effects that's exactly what I did on the latest one I painted.

    Your technique sounds very interesting. Don't the acrylic paints dry to quickly when you use them as a "smudge wash"? I mean do you have the time to float them around? Since you're using window cleaner in your mixture my guess is that you're airbrushing it on, right? Don't the window cleaner disolve the base color if you use a brush or a rag?

    Steve.
  4. Rogue Studios is offline Rogue Studios
    Jul 17, 2005, 9:05 PM - #54

    Mostly what I create is like a dirty water wash if that makes sense it's more thinner(window cleaner) than actual paint. I hand brush it on, I mist it with a sprayer and I tend to dab with a paper towel to prevent runs and drips. I only use airbrush once and it's also a wash to blend everything.

    Lee
  5. Krachenvogel's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2005
    Messages
    116
    Jul 18, 2005, 8:49 PM - #55

    This is an interesting thread. I used Polly Scale Tac Light Grey for the base color on mine: http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery9/dg_xwing.htm I like it because it has sort of a "warm" tint to it; many of the vintage publicity photos of the X-wing (like on my very first lunchbox) had a bit of a sepia tint to them, which forever influenced my mental image of the ship.

    I polished the base color a bit with steel wool before weathering, making the paint glossier (the opposite of the original technique, it seems). I find that oil-based washes work a little better for me on a smooth, slightly glossy finish than on a pebbly dead-flat basecoat. Using oil washes over a thoroughly dry acrylic base allows one to wipe off any excess with turpanol without damaging the paint beneath.
  6. Member Since
    Jun 2005
    From
    CT
    Messages
    79
    Aug 1, 2005, 11:09 PM - #56

    Well, after reading this thread and having an X-wing to do...I decided to try the white on black technique. It's definately a really great technique and looks awesome. I've used both the Camo Gray and (now) the WOB technique. I guess it's up to the modeler's opinion to decide which one they like best. To be honest, I like both. :P Anyway, here are some pics: http://www.starwarsmodels.com/XWingFM.html Please ignore Red 1, I did an awful job on it. But the Red 2 is newer and uses the WOB technique while the two Red 5s use the Camo Gray technique. Hope you like 'em.
  7. PHArchivist's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2001
    From
    Southern California
    Messages
    17,893
    Nov 12, 2005, 1:39 PM - #57

    Here's a question (primarily for Scott)...

    How dark do you suppose the panel lines were on the original ANH studio models?
  8. CaptCBoard is offline CaptCBoard
    Nov 12, 2005, 11:55 PM - #58

    Originally posted by PHArchivist@Nov 12 2005, 06:39 PM
    Here's a question (primarily for Scott)...

    How dark do you suppose the panel lines were on the original ANH studio models?
    [snapback]1115060[/snapback]
    Again, my research was only on the X-wings, but I would guess the panel lines would have been done the standard way as any model: pencil, technical pen or washes built up in the scribing, which would be more in the form of weathing than panel lines. You also have to remember that the weathering you see on film is much lighter than what is actually on the model, so in viewing the model in person the weathering would appear darker. This is due to the way light effects the more subtle tones-- some just disappear as the light overpowers the 'tint'. Weathering by its nature is designed to let the color underneath show through, so when you add strong light, it changes how the weathering looks on film. Keep in mind, your eye will compensate for a LOT of stuff that film can not. That's why they do lighting tests. I mention this in the context of panel lines since in one case a pencil line might work fine, but in others a darker line may be needed. The best thing is to just 'do what looks right'.

    I should also add this bit-- there are many occasions where the shot demands something 'different' be done, so paint will be changed, added to or subtracted from, in order to get a certain look. I've been on shoots where this happened many times to the same model, so that what you see on film, from scene to scene, can be in reality quite different but looks 'right' in the end. In 2001: A Space Odyssey, the Discovery was a single, continuous tone of white for the most part, they let the natural shadows of that huge 55-foot long model do the job. But for a few shots where the camera was very close to the model, they went in and added panel lines with pencil and pen-- and those were on the side of the model that was in deep shadow. What your eye sees as 'acceptable' can often make no sense. If they had not added those lines, the model would have looked very flat and you would not have seen any of the panel detail, beyond the actual value of the panels themselves. Adding the lines the way they did gave the detail that was there an added punch-- but you would never have noticed it if it weren't for the ability to freeze frame the DVD for a nice long look.

    Scott
  9. PHArchivist's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2001
    From
    Southern California
    Messages
    17,893
    Nov 13, 2005, 12:23 PM - #59

    Originally posted by CaptCBoard+Nov 13 2005, 04:55 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CaptCBoard @ Nov 13 2005, 04:55 AM)</div>
    <!--QuoteBegin-PHArchivist
    @Nov 12 2005, 06:39 PM
    Here's a question (primarily for Scott)...

    How dark do you suppose the panel lines were on the original ANH studio models?
    [snapback]1115060[/snapback]
    You also have to remember that the weathering you see on film is much lighter than what is actually on the model, so in viewing the model in person the weathering would appear darker. Scott
    [snapback]1115363[/snapback]
    [/b]
    Scott, you're awesome. You should write a book on this stuff.

    The selected quote hit home. I recently finished a studio-scale Viper with VERY heavy weathering. Up close it appears to be too much. But step back 5-10 feet (or photograph it), and it looks just about right...

    On panel lines, at first I had not accentuated them, but the model looked "flat". So I darkened them with Testor's Euro Grey I. Again, up close the panel lines looked too dark, but from a relative and acceptable distance (or on film), they are perfect.

    The panel lines of the X add notable character to the ship. But with so many home-built/painted models, folks seem to over do them. Finding what looks right to you (the builder) is the essence, and the art...

    I have deduced that quite a bit of modeling talent stems from how good your eye is -- that is, how well you interpret what is seen on screen, and how well you recognize when your model reaches that point. Knowing the proper techniques, paint colors, and other objective information -- to me -- seems secodary to your "eye"...
  10. PHArchivist's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2001
    From
    Southern California
    Messages
    17,893
    Nov 13, 2005, 12:25 PM - #60

    Originally posted by PHArchivist@Nov 13 2005, 05:23 PM

    I have deduced that quite a bit of modeling talent stems from how good your eye is -- that is, how well you interpret what is seen on screen, and how well you recognize when your model reaches that point.* Knowing the proper techniques, paint colors, and other objective information -- to me -- seems secodary to your "eye"...
    [snapback]1115557[/snapback]
    Now...

    That being said, here is a mildly hypocritical question...

    Scott, do you know what techniques McCune et. al. used for weathering the X's...?

    Was it entirely air-brushing, was it washes, hand brushing, or (as common sense would dictate) a combination of techniques?



  11. CaptCBoard is offline CaptCBoard
    Nov 14, 2005, 2:24 AM - #61

    I don't know 'exactly' what they did to do the weathering. An experienced painter can look at one of the models and tell you how different effects were applied. But I know for a fact that no painter sticks with one technique to do an entire job like the X-wing. For instance, long before the weathering is applied, liquid latex or rubber cement would have been spotted around for chipped paint. The rest of the paint would be applied and before and during the weathering process, the spots of goo would be picked off to reveal clean paint underneath-- the later in the weathering process the goo is removed, the brighter the paint underneath would appear.

    During the weathering process itself, an airbrush would be used for scorch marks and other battle damage effects. Drybrushing would be used to imply worn areas, scrapes and gouges. Washes would be used to simulate the general dirtyness, stains and leaks. The real trick is to layer all these effects-- washes on top of 'old' scorches and 'new' scorches on top of a wash. And while I'm sure there are those who use them, I have never personally seen a painter use powders for weathering. I think this is due to the amount of handling a model will endure while shooting. Actually, I should say that I have seen finely sifted dirt or diatomacious earth used, but that was usually applied after the model was in place and as such is not part of the paint.

    Scott
  12. Dymerski's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2000
    Messages
    1,595
    Nov 14, 2005, 5:36 AM - #62

    WOW... what a great thread..
    Lee...
    X-wings look FANTASTIC.....
    Dean
  13. PHArchivist's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2001
    From
    Southern California
    Messages
    17,893
    Nov 16, 2005, 12:29 AM - #63

    Question for Lee...

    You had mentioned, regarding one of your models, no dull coat was used...

    How are you sealing your weathering?
  14. PHArchivist's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2001
    From
    Southern California
    Messages
    17,893
    Jan 29, 2006, 2:23 PM - #64

    Bump for interested members...
  15. propcollector's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2002
    Messages
    2,101
    Jan 29, 2006, 6:20 PM - #65

    Originally posted by PHArchivist@Jan 29 2006, 07:23 PM
    Bump for interested members...
    [snapback]1171064[/snapback]
    The abundance of information on this thread is great.
    thanks
    Mark
  16. dtssyst's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2010
    From
    Reading PA
    Messages
    129
    Mar 9, 2011, 10:53 AM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #66

    CaptCBoard said: View Post
    The paint used as the base color on all X-wings, Y-wings and the MF in ANH was Krylon Platinum Gray. It is not the same Platinum Gray available today, which is much darker. The closest match to what Krylon made in 1976 is Testors Camouflage Gray, though it is a bit on the pink side.

    I have to point out that any paint info given by Bill George would only be accurate for ESB and later-- he did not work on ANH. My information comes from several people who did work (and paint) on that film, people I used to work with. When I was doing the research for my SS X-wing they were most helpful.

    For ESB, Red 5 was a new, much larger model and if Bill says they used gloss white I can not dispute it. From what I know of the way base coats and weathering appear on film, gloss white makes no sense-- even with a flat black primer under it. But, none of that is important since the modeler really needs to determine what it is he's actually trying to achieve.

    If you are building a model that duplicates an FX model, then the exact colors and how they were applied is important.

    If you are building a model that duplicates what is seen on the screen, then you need to use your eye to determine what color to use. Why?

    We'll take the X-wing as an example. This ship is supposed to be white with color markings on the fuselage, engine cowls and wings. If it were brand new, all of this would be bright and probably shiny. But, in the Star Wars world, especially the Rebel sections, these ships are old and well worn and the paint has suffered. That's what they want you to see on screen. However, back in 1976 using white on an FX model was very problematic. With the long exposures needed during motion-control photography, the weathering applied over white paint disappeared on film. Weathering, by its nature is translucent-- allowing the white underneath to show through. Pure white is just too bright to put weathering on top of and have it work properly. When they set the exposure, the cinematographer would take the weathering into account, but where the weathering was too thin, it not only didn't show up, but those areas would be overexposed. And even if the weathering was not a problem, they couldn't get a dense enough black in the shadows. Remember, motion picture lights are much different than any lighting any of us are used to. 3400 Kelvin light is way different than an ordinary 100 watt bulb.

    So, the solution was to use a very light gray base (which is known today as 'one-stop gray). Stuff like weathering looks much better - on film - when painted over light gray. The last step in how the model appears on film involves the film lab. They adjust the timing when making the prints so the ships appear 'whiter' than they actually look to the eye.

    (Short Story about White Paint...) A long time ago, I worked on "King Kong Lives". One of the miniature sets I built was this medical facility interior where Kong was getting a mechanical heart. The full-sized set was painted white, so we had to duplicate that on the miniature. But, during tests, they discovered that the ape-suit worn by the actor was so dark that we had to repaint the set 3-stops to the gray side. This way, when they overexposed the ape-suit by 3 stops, so you could see the texture of the hair, the gray set looked white on film.

    The question of Floquil also comes up. I know they used both Concrete (to delineate panels) and Caboose Red (wing markings). This red is actually just 'primary red', so not having the Floquil on hand is not a problem as any primary red will do. The blue used was a Pactra color (Sea Blue, if I recall correctly). It isn't available, but a 95% match is Tamiya Medium Blue (XF 18).

    I know that's a long explaination, but if you know why certain things are done, you can make a more informed decision.

    Scott
    CaptCBoard@AOL.com

    Pactra Sea Blue is still available from Amazon.
  17. tk1608's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2003
    From
    Leeds U.K.
    Messages
    714
    Mar 10, 2011, 3:42 AM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #67

    AAarrgghh !!, they won't ship to the UK

    Phil
  18. MonsieurTox's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2006
    From
    Paris, France
    Messages
    3,747
    Mar 10, 2011, 5:07 AM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #68

    tk1608 said: View Post
    AAarrgghh !!, they won't ship to the UK

    Phil
    Nor to France.
  19. jedimaster's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2009
    From
    Planet Perth
    Messages
    2,826
    Mar 10, 2011, 5:42 AM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #69

    Last edited by jedimaster; Mar 10, 2011 at 6:26 AM.
  20. Rats's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2008
    Messages
    300
    Mar 10, 2011, 9:22 AM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #70

    I must admit, I always thought that it was Pactra Stormy Sea Blue, which is a bluish grey I think. Also, on Page 22 of sculpting a galaxy, Lorne Peterson says it was Stormy Sea Blue. Not that there is any chance of anyone finding a jar of stormy or non-stormy sea blue these days....

    I guess it's not white either then

    Type in "Pactra Stormy Sea" in google images and see what comes up!
  21. Aurora's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2008
    Messages
    125
    Mar 10, 2011, 11:16 AM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #71

    tk1608 said: View Post
    AAarrgghh !!, they won't ship to the UK

    Phil
    Always forget about living in the us it seams every major store either comes form here or has a distributor

    Shipping those tiny bottles would cost next to nothing to ship. Ive shipped stuff to the upper part of canada cost next to nothing to ship an it was a large object
  22. 3d-builder's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2009
    Messages
    2,128
    Mar 10, 2011, 11:25 AM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #72

    Scott i have very reliable info that another
    technique was used to create the panel
    lines. I only have one pic though seems
    they used a 27 gauge needle to do it!!LOL


    Some points in this thread i said
    "Wow great information".......and at
    others i said "Wow 4 things you never talk
    about at a bar race, religion, politics, &
    Studio Scale Paint schemes and techniques
    for Star Wars models!

    thanks for sharing what you know!

    Regards,
    Michael
  23. Talisen's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2002
    From
    Whitby, ON
    Messages
    1,920
    Mar 10, 2011, 12:24 PM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #73

    Michael, that photo is not from an actual production ROTJ Awing. Digital cameras (and their electronic date burn it) didn't exist then.
  24. 3d-builder's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2009
    Messages
    2,128
    Mar 10, 2011, 1:26 PM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #74

    Talisen said: View Post
    Michael, that photo is not from an actual production ROTJ Awing. Digital cameras (and their electronic date burn it) didn't exist then.


    Your right i will have it cleaned and burned!!
  25. Share-Ometer Level 10 RPF Premium Member Guy Cowen's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2006
    From
    Manchester, UK
    Messages
    3,426
    Mar 10, 2011, 9:28 PM - Re: Paint colors for X-Wing, Snow speeder & AT-AT #75

    Its about time you got your A wing done mate? Stop stalling by doing more Snowspeeders

Similar Threads

  1. Crashed Snow speeder.
    IEDBOUNTYHUNTER, Studio Scale Models
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: Jul 1, 2012, 6:12 PM
  2. Luke's X Wing Helmet Paint Colors
    Cameron, Replica Props
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Jun 4, 2012, 1:23 PM
  3. Luke Snow Speeder boots
    Don93, Replica Costumes
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Jul 7, 2011, 8:17 PM
  4. AMT Snow speeder cockpit
    ozzyguanche, General Modeling
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Jul 8, 2009, 10:56 AM
  5. X-Wing--Paint Colors
    propcollector, Studio Scale Models
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Feb 6, 2006, 6:38 PM