ANH Pyro X-Wing References - Mainly: Red 6 Search

Colin Droidmilk

Right... I might do this one, actually... though I'm very far from making an actual decision. Also the canopy's a bit too dark for my taste - I'm such a picky bugger, me.

Re the tabletop pics. This one here in the Rinzler is far and away the sharpest I've ever seen, and new to boot. Must be more about somewhere - even if only in the LF vaults...

Jedimaster - aye, 'tis indeed the hero red 1.

Keiko

Here's my scan from the making of book...Red 6 is way in the back, but the Red 3 Pyro is fairly viewable.

ralphee

Yeaahhh, theres the 3 Pyro, lovely pretty bird!

lee

jedimaster

I just spent the last part of 1/2 an hour scanning and cropping that. Damn you keiko...................no seriously though thanks man.

Too Much Garlic

I like the fact that each ship has its own character in the paint job. Very cool and makes it more real.

A shame the Red 6 is so far back... but man... how'd'you guys ID those fighters in that pic? AMAZING!!!

ralphee

Im pretty sure somewhere, i did see a pic of Red6 with a badly warped lower wing...its like a banana....think it was Red6....ill have to try find the pic, you guys would know more Colin/Martyn etc lol.

lee

Keiko

It takes a bit of cross referencing from other photos, but it's really not all that hard.

Lee: hope you do find the warped wing pic - I don't believe I've seen that one, or perhaps just failed to notice the wing!

For my part, I'd love to see more refs on Red 6, Red 4 and Red 12...they seem to be the ones that don't get built often, though Msr Tox's Red 4 sets the bar quite high for the rest of us.

ralphee

Its from a Japanese publication, pretty sure its six, at least i count six stripes?
Notice though, that canopy color....is that yellow in there?

lee

Keiko

Oh yes, I've seen that pic, but never noticed the twisted wing in the bottommost image. I have to wonder about that picture's pedigree though - I'm thinking it must be post 1978 - it looks like the AMT X wing kit on the right side there, plus a strage (resin?) X-wing on the left.

Colin Droidmilk

Keiko, thanks for scanning up that photo. I can get a lot more out of it on the screen. Cheers!

Always wondered what the score is with that last pic in Ralphee's post myself. Definitely the MPC there on the right. A pyro which survived the first film ? - or maybe a new one built for ROTJ. What about that? ROTJ pyros...

ralphee

Hmm ROTJ pyros, didnt think of that TBH, id bet it is, as no MPC kits were around for ANH and i cant see a spare six surviving ANH filming?

Lee

gonk27

I just want to say a big collective thanks to everyone who's contributed photos to this thread (and Carsten for starting it)


.. I have a pyro kit winging it's way across the pond to me right now and I'm looking forward to getting started on it once I finished my ROTJ AT-ST. I haven't begun to think about which particular ship to try emulating, and to be honest it's the paintwork that intimidates me far more than the construction of the kit.


A question for the X-Wing Gurus, is there much difference in finishing standards between hero and pyro models? (Build standards and paintwork). I've heard and I think have seen that at least some were painted up very well for models destined to meet a brief firey end. I presume the same paints were used??


Cheers!

MonsieurTox

I think there is no reason for them to have used other paints... We can think with confidence they used the same brand (Floquil for the markings and weathering) and the other brand (can't recall the name) for the basecoat (platinium gray). There were several versions of the same birds, of course Heros had their pyro version(s) but some pyros had also their stand-in (is that the right word ?). Look at the crappy Red 4 on the pic Lee posted above, the paintjob was obviously rushed...

There're at least 4 pyros done with an hero finish (or better than some hero) : pyro Red 3, pyro Red 4, pyro Red 6 and pyro Red 12. They all have a high quality finish and most of them have decals.

Keiko

Don't forget the pyro red leader!

One of the things that I never see discussed is the timeline of the shooting, the disappointing (to George Lucas) first generation of pyro detonations, and the 2nd generation of shots filmed by Joe Viskocil.

I've read in several vintage publications interviews with Joe, and he mentions that there was a lot of pyro work done before he came on board, and that GL was not satisfied with this work. The first set of explosions were said to be flash-bang, whereas George wanted the flaming fireball look that we are now familiar with in the movie.

A quote from Cinefex #65 puts it fairly succintly : "After a series of primacord mishaps - resulting in the obliteration of dozens of breakaway models - pyrotechnician Joesph Viskocil was brought in to orchestrate the miniature explosions."

Now, if we watch the original Star Wars with an eye on explosions, we'll note that with the exception of Red 4, the X wing pyros are crude models with simple sticks for the guns, etc. It is also worth noting that there is that well-known picture of Joe Johnston and Joe Viskocil rigging a Red 4 Pyro. (Though it looks like a cruder version, as M. Tox mentions).

My theory: Richard Edlund et al blew up the beautiful pyros that we are discussing before Viskocil came on board. Viskocil arrived and then had to have the guys rapidly slap together some crude bucks for the remaining X wing work. As time was running out, the "pyros" became cruder and cruder. I think of the beauties in the pictures on the bench as "hero pyros", and ironically they aren't even in the movie for the most part.

Worth noting, however, is that the Red 4 "hero pyro" does appear in the original cut of Ep IV. It's the first X wing shot down, and is in a couple of quick cuts in flight before detonation as well. I posted caps in another thread some time ago.

Other sources corroborating my timeline theory: Cinefantastique Vol 6, No 4 from 1978, Starlog Photo Guidebook - Special Effects #3 from 1980.

Cheers.

Nwerke

It would be nice to see the 'failed' footage someday, wouldn't it? Would make a great blu-ray extra. Won't happen, I guess.

jedimaster

"Hero pyro's" Now thats a whole new level. I'm not making the Hero.... i'm not even making the Pyro ...........Its a Hero Pyro Dumb ass!.....

Can we abbreviate these to HP 4 OR HP Whatever. If i have to type hero pyro in a post more than twice i think i'll just give up

-... . .- --..

Keiko, from everything I've read, that's pretty much my understanding of the progression of the final battle sequence production too. I think you probably nailed it.

Also, if you judge the miniatures more by the quality of the paint and finishing, then I suppose "Hero Pyro" is apt, because there were a number of all-resin "pyro kit" models that were dressed up like the original hero miniatures. The fact that apparently none of them survived filming intact probably says something about their relative value to the crew, however.

For me it's just easier to think of the mixed-material (acrylic, styrene, resin, aluminum, etc.) models that had internal armatures with multiple hard mounting points and posable wings (such as they were) along with lights and electrical harnesses, as the true "heroes" of the first film. And that means each of the all-resin models with fixed wings and a single mounting point (if that) was simply a "pyro", irrespective of finish.

gonk27

Thanks Julien!

.. thanks too for that info Keiko, interesting to read.

Nighteyes

Keiko, gotta agree with your analysis. Very thorough and thanks for sharing the details. Probably a lot of pyros constructed that were never documented. Perhaps seeing the earlier detailed pyros in group shots indiciates there's more photo documentation. Obviously there was some pride there.

Please guys anything but a new acronym. Detailing aside these are still of Pyro construction and exploded. We could call them early Pyros.

Julien, I wasn't aware the base white was documented. Does this still exist today? I noticed Floquil does Reefer White in cans.

Rocketbobs

Hey friends. I dont know if this will help out... but more reference the better I say. Here is my screen used pyro Red 3 wing.

Attached Thumbnails

         

 

jedimaster

Thanks Man thats excellent as 3 will be my choice for the pyro. The pictures seem a little blury though , perhaps you should send me the wing for closer analysis.

Keiko

Here's a few "better" shots from one of the famous table photos. I got this off the Empire of Dreams doc - they go from a closeup to the longer full shot, so I screencapped it at several points. This gives slightly better images than I've seen of this photo before.

I've tried to annotate it, but the Red 6 (?) ship continues to confuse me. In the other pics of it in this post, we see it being painted with a red cockpit frame, but then again, without while being readied for filming.

Then there's the "red cannon" ship...I don't know where that fits into things, but it seems like the upper port cannon has a red panel on it, which Red 6 does not.

So...is there another ship we haven't accounted for yet, or am I crazy? I'd love to hear others' thoughts.

Cheers.

Nwerke

I think the red cannon ship has its canopy masked up in the tabletop shot, so if you mean that ship by the 'prepared for filming' shot, then it doesn't follow that it had a red canopy and lost it before filming. Disregard if you didn't mean that.

Red 6 didn't lose the red entirely, though; it was toned down to more of a greyish-slash-rusty colour IMO. You can get a hint of red in the side view pics from the SAG DVD.

Edit: some folk consider the red cannon ship to be Red 10. From the placement of the stripes, it looks possible. Or it could be the pyro Red 5 (we know - from Tread's pics of the debris - that one existed...). For a long while we all thought that Red 12 in the table top pics was Red 6. It's very hard to spot the stripe gaps, and until Kurt Kuhn leaked the high-res Red 12 underside pic we didn't know for sure that whether they even USED gaps in the stripes to denote reds 7 through 12.

Red 6 did have a lower starboard cannon with that same red band (it doesn't go completely around the cannon body). So I guess, either more than one cannon was painted this same way, or they may have salvaged parts from destroyed models for use in later ones. Or perhaps Red 6 existed as both pyro-hero (c'mon guys, we've used that term for ages!) and pure pyro?

I just know somebody is reading this and sniggering at all the inaccurate guesswork...

bigbaddaddyvader

I dont know how much help it would be but I have a screen-used pyro engine and cannon if anyone wants me to post pics.

Nwerke

Need you ask? Yes, it's all good, please post away - thanks!